CHAT ARCHIVE - 10-17-1998, Male-Female

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ICQ Chat Save file
Started on Sun Oct 18 01:18:08 1998

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<Crispian> Good Evening Casey
<Casey> How are you this evening?
<Crispian> Fine, I have been working on Night Whispers all day
<Crispian> Had to write a very difficult scene
<Crispian> I should say very uncomfortable
<Casey> Those usually end up being the best scenes.
<Crispian> We'll see
<shorty103> so what the topic tonight Casey, if I get an more holes, well you know what I'd look like
<Casey> Rose, I have critiqued your story segment but have not finished typing in my comments. I have company tomorrow, so am not certain when I'll get my comments typed in and sent to you.
<shorty103> okay, take all the time you need
<Chipmonk> I wasn't in a tree.
<Crispian> I am trying to cut down chip's tree, rose
<Casey> At this time of year, you should have been in a nice warm burrow.
<Chipmonk> It's too dangerous in the trees--squirrels, you know.
<Chipmonk> I just gather the acorns and run before the big squirrels catch me.
<Chipmonk> Then head for the burrow.
<Chipmonk> And I have been illuminating manuscripts today too.
<shorty103> I have been doing a lot of reading, trying to learn some more new things to help my journey as a writer,
<Chipmonk> Very good.
<Casey> Reading how-to-write books, or more of the classics you've been reading, Rose?
<shorty103> well, different thing on how to build character, settings, plot/themes and such and still working on the grammar side of things too
<Casey> Those kinds of books can give you some handy tips. Great, rose.
<shorty103> yes, I need all the help I can get
<shorty103> one of the things that I was reading gave me some inspiration, so I wrote a small paragraph
<Casey> Okay, we'll go ahead and begin.
<shorty103> I'm ready teacher
<Crispian> I also
<Casey> Tonight, we are discussing male vs. female characteristics, and I will admit that I do not know or even pretend to know everything there is on this topic.
<shorty103> okay
<Crispian> That's probably a good thing Casey
<Casey> This will, hopefully, be as much a learning experience for me as it is for you.
<shorty103> good
<Casey> Over the years, I have learned a few differences through observation and study.
<Casey> We can begin with those, and take the discussion beyond.
<shorty103> okay
<Crispian> Let's hear some of the differences Casey
<Casey> Hopefully, we'll have a couple more males join late, so Crispian won't be so outnumbered here.
<Chipmonk> Zach is coming in.
<Casey> Great!
<Crispian> Thank You, Thank You, Thank You
<Zach> Was I supposed to bring the fun tonight? :)
<Crispian> Glad to have another male here Zach
<Chipmonk> Casey is about to teach us about sex.
<Casey> No, Crispian was sweating that he was the only male before you arrived.
<shorty103> yes, you always do Zach
<Zach> Uh oh. I may not have any around here tonight.
<Crispian> This was starting to remind me of a bar in Georgetown
<Zach> Casey is going to teach us about sex? Glad I showed up.
<shorty103> lol
<Casey> I will preface my comments by saying that no one rule applies across the board.
<shorty103> okay
<Crispian> That sounds like a battle cry
<Zach> To each his own?
<Casey> There will always be someone who is an exception to every "rule."
<shorty103> true
<Casey> Yep! Individualism rules.
<Crispian> yeah, yeah, yeah
<shorty103> you tell 'em Casey
<Casey> But there are general propensities that predominate.
<Crispian> They are already teaming up Zach
<Zach> Before you start, Casey, may I share Somerset Maugham's three rules for writing the novel?
<Casey> Sure! Love to hear them, Zach.
<Zach> Steady, Crisp.
<Zach> Okay, here goes: according to Somerset Maugham, there are three rules for writing the novel. Unfortunately, no one knows what they are.
<Casey> Laughing. I've heard that before.
<Zach> Rats! (Snaps fingers)
<Casey> Okay: One generally true propensity of men is that they tend to act more quickly than women do.
<Crispian> Agreed
<shorty103> but not always
<Casey> Women wish to discuss and debate and poll all their friends before acting on any major undertaking.
<shorty103> sometimes
<Casey> Men usually see an opportunity or something that needs to be done and do it.
<Crispian> very perceptive
<Casey> As I said earlier, Rose, these characteristics do not apply universally to every male and every female.
<shorty103> understood now
<Casey> And if you guys disagree or have another perspective (guys meaning male or female participants), please jump in and say so.
<Casey> Males also seem to be stimulated visually, much more so than women are.
<Casey> Is it true that purple is a "guy" color? That it tends to attract your attention more than other colors?
<Crispian> No
<Crispian> Most studies done on purple are not very favorable
<crip> purple? not really
<Crispian> In fact, the general description of someone who likes purple is weirdo
<Crispian> Not my opinion, just studies done
<Casey> I questioned that one. Color seems to be much more of a personal preference.
<shorty103> I like purple, and I am not weird
<Crispian> I understand rose, I like purple also
<Crispian> But I may be weird
<Casey> Harold prefers green.
<Crispian> I prefer Blue
<crip> dark red
<shorty103> red, blue, and sometimes a middle green
<Casey> Interesting. James liked red when he was young then changed to blue as a preference, which he still prefers.
<shorty103> and black
<Casey> With the whole emotional issue, men rarely express an emotion other than anger.
<shorty103> true
<Casey> Publicly, that is.
<Crispian> Untrue
<Casey> Explain, Crispian.
<Crispian> I think hurt is often mistook for anger
<shorty103> I've met one man that hasn't shown me anger
<Casey> Isn't hurt among both sexes often expressed as anger first?
<Crispian> I don't think so
<Crispian> Many times hurt is expressed as silence
<Chipmonk> Excitement.
<Casey> Good point.
<Crispian> Emotion in both sexes often misunderstood by the other
<shorty103> true
<Casey> From silence, does the emotion progress to anger?
<Crispian> and communication through emotion is rarely done
<Crispian> Maybe as a defense
<Casey> Crispian, do you feel that social expectations sometimes dictate the emotions you display in public?
<Crispian> definitely
<Crispian> Sometimes that is misunderstood for macho
<Casey> What kinds of emotions do you control in public?
<Chipmonk> Men are also allowed to cut up and act sillier in public than women are.
<Crispian> Agreed Chip
<Crispian> There are definite dual standards
<shorty103> but it sometimes depends on the person who is watching or communicating with too
<Casey> Absolutely.
<shorty103> I, myself have a very passive personality
<Casey> Appearance is another factor. We were at the mall today and there was a couple who highlighted this fact to an extreme. The woman was wearing a floor length red evening gown and her male companion was in blue jeans and a tee shirt. They were a very odd pair.
<shorty103> yes very odd
<Crispian> But that seems to be the expression of youth these days
<Chipmonk> Was she going to GlamorShots to get her picture taken?
<Crispian> Remember the 60's and the long hair
<shorty103> and that's true too Crispian
<crip> was the female older than the male?
<Casey> They seemed to be the same age.
<Casey> They could have been, Chip.
<Chipmonk> Do guys go to glamorshots?
<Casey> they had come from a different direction, tho, and were in the food court while we were eating lunch.
<Chipmonk> Sounds like the basis for a story.
<Crispian> Casey, from a woman's perspective list three adjectives that would describe men in general
<Casey> Would age difference have been significant, Crip?
<crip> if the male is younger than the female usually dresses a lot dressier but if its the other way around the male usually tries for the age of the younger female
<Casey> All the women here take part in this exercise. List 3 adjectives that describe men in your personal view, and the men do the same about the women.
<shorty103> bold, mouthy, unpredictable, I hope that is what you are looking for Casey
<Chipmonk> What about chipmonks?
<Casey> yes, Chipmonks have a sex. They're not exempt.
<Crispian> manupulative, sensual, and the b word
<Zach> But you're classifying women and men as if they're all alike, aren't you?
<Casey> "bossy?"
<Casey> Well, it helps here to understand the stereotype to understand how reality varies from that stereotype, doesn't it?
<Crispian> agreed
<Zach> Maybe so. And we can use those to introduce memorable differences in our characters, n'est ce pas?
<Chipmonk> Hard, territorial, confident.
<Crispian> Because isn't that what we default too in writing our characters?
<crip> emotional, devious, clever
<Crispian> Good stereotype crip, devious
<crip> I like territorial. so true
<Crispian> Chip: territorial is right on
<Casey> physically strong, decisive, possessive.
<shorty103> true
<crip> oooh possessive is right on the mark
<Crispian> Possessive, Great Casey
<Zach> Men are determined, courageous, childish, crude, rash, heroic, fearful, truculent, loud, unpredictable, and the list goes on. I think the same may be said of women.
<shorty103> physical
<Chipmonk> I was trying to think of one word to describe concerned about pecking order.
<Zach> Hierarchical.
<Casey> hierarchical
<Casey> twinky fingers at Zach!
<Chipmonk> That's it, Casey.
<Zach> Heh heh. Two for one.
<Chipmonk> And Zach.
<Chipmonk> Men are more hierarchical.
<crip> I have to disagree, chip. Women fight for it.
<Zach> I think there are some distinct differences between men and women at the emotional level, all having to do with perception.
<shorty103> true
<Crispian> Explain further Zach
<Chipmonk> Nobody said women were nurturing.
<Zach> Men and women perceive the same emotional situations completely differently.
<crip> good point, zach
<Casey> How fast are men to take offense over innuendos?
<Chipmonk> True.
<Zach> An argument might be a great way of clearing the air, or the end of a friendship--depends on the perception, often.
<Crispian> Agreed, and many times in totally opposite arenas
<shorty103> true
<crip> not as fast as women do
<Crispian> Casey, explain innuendo
<Casey> That hits home, Zach!
<Zach> I think different men take offense over innuendo differently, but it's more common with women to read much out of little, particularly when it's the other women doing it.
<shorty103> boy, is this conversation bringing back some memories
<Casey> I've never understood the male desire to rush out to a meeting where they knew there would probably be a fist-fight before everything was over.
<Casey> innuendo--implied insults.
<Zach> Not all males desire to do that, Casey.
<Zach> Far too many, however, probably do.
<crip> Casey, males have to get it out of their system unlike women who keep it inside boiling and churning for eons
<Chipmonk> Or watch other men fight instead of stopping it.
<Crispian> You might be surprised Casey
<Zach> Not all males make use of fist fighting to get things out of their system.
<Casey> Oh, yes, Crip! Women will hoard resentment for years, waiting for an opportunity to get even.
<crip> Not all but a lot
<Zach> It's a stereotypical, macho bullshit concept of men.
<Zach> Agree it's a lot.
<Crispian> Absolutely correct Casey
<crip> Right Casey. they wait for that exact moment when revenge is sweetest
<Crispian> A woman scorned...
<Zach> I think that the media and especially the maniacal reverence for sports--including the concept of "sports heroes"--which keep all that stuff alive.
<Chipmonk> I don't, hold grudges.
<Crispian> That's nice Chip: Alvin sends his regards
<crip> not even against the cars that try to run you over?
<shorty103> I am so passive, I couldn't fight my way out of wet paper bag, and revenge, that is not in my vocabulary
<Chipmonk> No, I learn to look both ways. Cars can't help it.
<crip> ah I see
<Casey> It's the driver behind the wheel that tries to run over little chipmonks in the street--the cars probably would not do so given the option to do otherwise.
<crip> that's not true. cars have personalities.
<Chipmonk> There are people in the cars!?
<crip> yeah they transform into robots when we aren't looking
<crip> it certainly explains 'road rage'
<Casey> So, this revenge issue. How many of us entertain such wishes?
<Chipmonk> From my point of view I can't see inside the cars.
<shorty103> yes so true crip
<Chipmonk> No revenge.
<crip> revenge is a good thing
<shorty103> not in me, Casey
<Crispian> revenge is non productive, serves very little purpose
<Chipmonk> Maybe it's just this group--you're all so mature and wise, being writers .
<shorty103> yet some people are stuck in that frame of mind
<Casey> Do you know people (someone) who is?
<crip> if there were no revenge, people would get away with murder every day
<Crispian> Many are Rose, male and female
<shorty103> I know someone like that, an ex-boyfriend
<Crispian> Do we speak of the law as revenge Crip, or personal vendettas
<Chipmonk> I believe in stopping someone from doing things that they shouldn't--that's not the same as revenge, crip.
<shorty103> for this person I know, it's a personal vendetta
<Casey> I know only one, but he's not actively pursuing revenge, only wishes to be around when the individual he despises is finally caught.
<crip> I don't think of that as revenge, chip. I'm not sure how to explain this.
<Crispian> Revenge seems to mean different things to nearly all of us
<Casey> I'm getting that impression, too, Crispian.
<Crispian> We're all going different directions on that word
<shorty103> I am just glad that I don't have anything like that within me
<Crispian> Rose, what is your concept of revenge?
<Chipmonk> To me, it means going beyond stopping a person's actions, making them suffer as pay back for emotional reasons.
<shorty103> I guess, I really don't like it and wouldn't do it to anyone even if they were my enemy
<shorty103> chicken at heart
<Casey> That's another wonder: what do we do with someone we dub "enemy?"
<crip> depends on what the 'enemy' did
<shorty103> my enemy has done a lot to me
<Chipmonk> I don't think of people in that way.
<Casey> Do we simply avoid that individual at every opportunity?
<Zach> Enemies are to be variously despised, pitied, and kept watch over so that when the inevitable bad luck comes to call, you can smile, sigh and thank fate for a job well done.
<crip> what do you think then, chip?
<crip> EXACTLY, ZACH!
<crip> wonderful observation
<Zach> That's my approach, anyway.
<Casey> That is Harold's approach, too, Zach.
<shorty103> yes that is one way of looking, never really looked at that way either
<Chipmonk> I can imagine people not liking me, but I can't imagine anyone wanting to harm me personally.
<shorty103> I can, in my case
<Zach> I think when an individual does something despicable, they take upon themselves a great burden. That burden tends to be removed from them if you actively seek personal, direct vengeance. If you can let nature take its course, in time their burden will overcome them.
<crip> human psyches, the hardest thing to predict
<shorty103> that is so true Zach
<Zach> Harold sounds like a good guy, Casey.
<Casey> He is, Zach.
<Chipmonk> So, by seeking revenge you relieve them of their burden?
<Zach> Yes, Chip.
<Zach> You thwart nature, IMO.
<Chipmonk> Never thought of it that way.
<Zach> Well, it makes for interesting conversation, whether true or not.
<Crispian> It does that
<Casey> It's an interesting perspective you present, Zach. That by acting against someone who has wronged you, you sink to their level by actively acting against them.
<Crispian> I concur Casey
<Casey> Or sink lower, maybe?
<Crispian> Seems to incur more wrath than creative solution to a problem
<Casey> One loses dignity, definitely.
<shorty103> yes Casey that is true
<Chipmonk> Is there a difference between getting even and teaching them a lesson?
<Crispian> Definitely Chip
<Crispian> Depends on the motivation
<Zach> That's part of it, Casey. The other part is that I believe there are forces we cannot account for that drive individuals toward their own destiny, which is based on how they treat others. When you act against someone who has committed a wrong, you remove that force somehow and quite often they come out either unscathed (for you usually don't get back what they took) or suffering only partially for what they did.
<Casey> Teaching them a lesson seems to imply that you take the injury one step farther then they did.
<Crispian> If getting even is to
<Zach> Lessons are mostly for children. I'm talking of adults, who I am convinced have all the information on right and wrong they need by the time they get there. No lessons, just this balance of actions positive or negative.
<crip> maybe they lost dignity but in some cases they regain it
<Chipmonk> Like Karma, Zach?
<Casey> How, Crip?
<Zach> Sure, Karma.
<shorty103> I am getting a better picture of things that have taken part in my own life
<crip> perhaps the person they seek revenge against took it away from them in the first place
<Zach> Of course, there's the agent of how you're treated as a child, which tends to follow most people into adulthood. The statistics on abuse are frightening--on good days.
<Chipmonk> I don't think anyone can take your dignity, you can give it up however.
<Zach> I don't think it excuses anyone, of course, just that it plays such a large role.
<shorty103> I am beginnig to understand these feelings , I know now why I am writing one of my stories
<crip> give it up unwillingly maybe
<Zach> I'm glad, shorty.
<Zach> Understanding self is the key to understanding all around you. It is here where most people fail to make a dent in life.
<Casey> We seem to have given free rein to the "victim mentality," where everyone's free to admit they were a victim of this and that and marinate in that victimization for as long as they wish. Women are especially bad about this.
<Chipmonk> Dignity is something you have internally. No matter what the situation, you can choose to keep it or give it up.
<crip> explain, chip
<Zach> Everyone is a victim sooner or later. But what you do with those events--ah, that makes the adult human, doesn't it?
<Crispian> I agree Chip
<Casey> Yes, Zach.
<shorty103> yes, I am sorry, but a few tears just came to the surface
<Zach> That's okay. If you want to really cry, go see What Dreams May Come.
<shorty103> thanks
<Zach> Cathy and I saw that today. We shed plenty.
<Chipmonk> Let's say, a person in a concentration camp, crip. they can be tortured, humiliated and still retain their dignity and sense of honor.
<Chipmonk> It is the abuser who is dishonorable, not the victim.
<Casey> Exactly, Chip.
<shorty103> Zach, I have seen that movie and yes it does exactly that
<Zach> Do you think that's true, Chip? I have an interest in the Holocaust, to use one example. I know the Nazis wanted desperately to dehumanize the Jews/undesirables. I wonder if retention of dignity really occurred.
<crip> that's a bit of an extreme
<Zach> It's true that the abuser is the dishonorable one, Chip.
<Casey> Again, I think the term "dignity" means slightly different things to each of us.
<shorty103> I must thank you all for helping get in touch with some of my feelings before this chat ends
<Zach> True, Casey.
<Zach> Think of this place as a couch, shorty :-)
<shorty103> thanks
<Zach> I wonder if dignity and maturity and graciousness are not all parts of the same characteristic.
<Chipmonk> I think so, Zach, that's what creates heroes--even the little acts of heroism and kindness.
<Zach> Have you read Schindler's List or seen the movie, Chip?
<Chipmonk> And selflessness.
<Crispian> It appears to me all these words harbor different means for each of us which leads me into what I sense they really reveal, and that is our Philosophy on life itself
<Casey> Some may think that dignity cannot exist if one's not wearing clothes, but that is not true.
<Casey> I've seen it, Zach.
<Zach> Very moving.
<shorty103> that movie pulled at my heart strings
<Chipmonk> True Crispian. I've seen the movie, Zach.
<shorty103> I must watch a tearjerker, so I can explain these tears
<Casey> It's not necessary for you to explain your tears, Rose. Don't we cry for a wide variety of reasons?
<Zach> We live in a curious world. Picture Oskar Schindler (with all his faults, of course) next to, say, Michael Jordan, who really by all accounts is a decent person, and think of the term "hero."
<Chipmonk> I remember the Nurenberg trials from when I was a child and shouldn't have been exposed to such things. Left a mark on my psyche hearing about the torture and experimentation that went on and then being teased because I'm German.
<Crispian> Very true chip: Many do not understand the difference between being German and being a Nazi
<shorty103> I love all people, no matter who they are,
<Chipmonk> Hotsy totsy your a nazi!
<Zach> Because of forced association, Chip. Not all Germans were monsters, and it shouldn't take any reminding for anyone.
<Crispian> Unbelievable
<Casey> It's part of the psychological stuff our government must push through in order to get Americans revved up enough to not only support a war, but to actively leave our country and kill others.
<Chipmonk> Chanted by the same kids who made fun of my sisability. They didn't understand how close to being nazis they were.
<Crispian> The points right on Chip
<crip> hate is still hate in any shape or form
<Zach> I think the truer--and infinitely more tragic--truth is that WWII Germans, the ordinary rank and file, were creatures of their time and circumstances like most of us are. Imagine being inside such a system.
<Crispian> Nazis can be any country, any group, where hatred is the means to motivation
<Zach> Sorry, guys, but I gotta run now. Very sleepy. It's been fun.
<Casey> The Japanese have suffered that propaganda as much as the Germans have.
<Chipmonk> When you hear about cases like the gay guy in Wyoming and think about what followers people still are, it is very scary to me.
<shorty103> bye Zach and thank you for your words of wisdom
<shorty103> brb, need a cup of tea to calm the nerves
<Casey> There's a similar case here in Va. that is just coming up for trial where some white guys burned and decapitated a black man. The psychological "programming" that must have gone on beforehand in order to permit those people to commit such an act of horror is incredible, to me.
<Chipmonk> Very!
<crip> there are some really sick people out there
<Crispian> I often wonder how much unhappiness there is in the World, that leads people to perform many of the grotesque things they do
<Casey> And extremely scary.
<Chipmonk> I agree, Crispian. I wonder what has happened to a person to make them feel so offended by a person they don't even know that they would act with such hatred and vengeance.
<Casey> there seems to be an incredible level of egocentricity that must exist, too, in order to perform such a act.
<crip> egocentricity?
<Casey> The belief that only one way or one race is "right" and no other way can exist.
<Casey> An over-inflated sense of self, Crip.
<crip> ah, I always wonder what the word was that made me stay away from all religious thinking
<Crispian> I learned one really big point here tonight Casey; We could take any of the words we have discussed and place them with any human, male or female, as long as we remained consistent in their behavior and be correct in what we were portraying
<Chipmonk> These are motivations--both personal and societal--that we as writers should be examining and getting readers to think about.
<shorty103> so true Chip
<Crispian> Stereotypes are just illusions we utilize to not work at developing our characters
<Chipmonk> Well said, Crispy.
<Crispian> Thanks Chip
<Casey> Yes, Crispian, you're right. It's the easy way out, the way that requires the least amount of brain effort.
<Crispian> Agreed Casey
<Crispian> I am glad I was here.
<Casey> Writing takes an incredible amount of thinking, even before fingers touch keyboards.
<Crispian> Really learned something valuable tonight
<Crispian> Way before fingers touch keys
<Casey> I was interested in the subtle variations in our perceptions of key words.
<Crispian> Fascinating for me
<shorty103> Casey, I did think that these kinds of emotions would never surface, and why they did tonight I don't know, but I am glad that they are, so I can get in the next level of writing I think
<Casey> Makes you more aware of how tricky language and communication is.
<Crispian> Tricky and dangerous
<Casey> Writing is highly emotional, Rose. Good writing, that is--that reaches way down into a person's heart and inner being.
<shorty103> that it does
<Casey> But that is what anyone should be doing--stretching the limit of being and understanding when one writes. That passion and emotion will always come out in what is written.
<Crispian> I believe that Casey
<shorty103> I have been searching for these kinds of feelings for awhile, and now that I have found some of them, I'm not letting go until I can put these feelings on paper
<Casey> Great. That's exactly what should happen.
<shorty103> thank you all
<Crispian> Thank You. It is through the group discussion that many discoveries occur Rose
<Casey> And it's amazing when one really starts to follow a thread of thought in a different direction, what comes out onto the paper.
<shorty103> that is so true
<Crispian> I tried that today Casey
<Crispian> And boy did it lead somewhere I never intended to go
<Crispian> And still unsure If I am glad it did
<Casey> Yes, that will happen, too. (I'm chuckling, because that's happened to me, also, in the past.)
<Crispian> Chuckling Back
<Crispian> Big time
<shorty103> Casey may I share something with everyone, it might lighten the mood up, but I would like your opinion
<Casey> okay.
<shorty103> it will take a moment to type okay
<Casey> That's fine.
<shorty103> This city of Saint John, is a vibrent place. Holding on to the past, while growing into a city of tomorrow. Streets criscross the landscape as a spider weaves her web. Trees stand tall undaunted by the seasons.
<shorty103> Their leaves spread like a carpet of green in spring. shading us form the sun. end
<Casey> Two immediate impressions from what you've written.
<shorty103> yes
<Casey> 1st, that St. John is still growing, because new streets are being constructed ("as a spider weaves her web"--you used the active present voice.)
<shorty103> oh,
<Casey> 2nd, "trees stand tall, undaunted by the seasons" sounds like a tropical location, where the seasons do not change, where deciduous trees don't drop their leaves.
<shorty103> okay, so I have to change the words a little to get all of that in one sentence
<Chipmonk> But, when you say the leaves are like a carpet, I think all the leaves are lying on the ground. Lol.
<Casey> Yes, conflicting impressions.
<Chipmonk> Unless they are carpeting the sky?
<shorty103> well, it just came to me in a moment, I just went with the flow
<Chipmonk> That's good!
<Casey> you did well.
<shorty103> I will work on it
<Chipmonk> Do that, whatever comes.
<shorty103> that's why I need grammar
<shorty103> I get so confused so easy
<Crispian> I think I do also, Rose
<Crispian> I have been confused my whole life, but that really helps in writing
<shorty103> lol
<Chipmonk> It's not just grammar. Writers need to really sense things as they are, not being content with descriptions others have used, but seeing hearing smelling it all new.
<shorty103> yes true
<Casey> Confusion makes you stop and think really hard about the thing that is confusing you until you can reach the root of the confusion--what about it is causing that confusion.
<Crispian> Sensing and describing you really have to work at
<Crispian> For me anyway
<Crispian> Does not come easy
<Casey> Description is not easy. I will always be working on that aspect of writing.
<shorty103> but it seems that I am just discovering these things for the first, I know they were always there, but learning a new way of looking at them
<Chipmonk> We'll have to do some sensory exercises one of these days.
<Crispian> That would be great Chip
<Crispian> I might get a little embarrassed however
<shorty103> yes it would
<shorty103> why
<crip> as long as it doesn't involve a grammar lesson
<Chipmonk> For example, what does red smell like?
<Crispian> hot peppers
<Casey> apples!
<crip> roses or blood
<Crispian> That's a contrast Crip
<Crispian> vivid impressions
<crip> just the two things that came to mind
<Chipmonk> Yet some would say color can't be smelled?
<Casey> It's by association that it has smell.
<shorty103> wow, it's something to think about
<Casey> Just as some words have connotations that go beyond the dictionary meaning.
<Chipmonk> Sweat.
<Crispian> My nemesis
<Casey> smells very masculine.
<crip> foul
<Casey> very sensual.
<shorty103> stinky
<Chipmonk> Lol, Crispy.
<Crispian> Can never remember how to spell sweet and sweat.
<Chipmonk> Oh, I thought you meant you sweat a lot.
<Casey> You did amazingly well, then!
<Crispian> No, I wrote letters for a long time inserting sweat for sweet
<Crispian> Does that conjur up some very peculair senarios
<shorty103> lol
<Casey> LOL! "my dearest sweat . . ."
<Chipmonk> Oh, I was saying red smells like sweat.
<Crispian> yes
<Crispian> heh heh heh
<Chipmonk> What does sweat sound like?
<Crispian> work
<shorty103> you got me,,,
<Casey> rainfall.
<crip> a leaky faucet
<Chipmonk> Salsa music.
<shorty103> new word
<shorty103> tin roof
<Casey> Crip and I are close
<shorty103> I think I got confused again
<Chipmonk> Yep, especially when describing the drips that fall off the end of your nose.
<Crispian> heh heh
<Casey> the drops that trickle into your eyes and burn them.
<shorty103> yes
<Chipmonk> I hate when that happens, and your hands are too dirty to wipe them.
<Casey> Then you're tearing and sweating at the same time.
<crip> that's why long sleeves were invented
<Chipmonk> And dehydrating.
<shorty103> lol
<Chipmonk> Good one Crip.
<Chipmonk> Wonder if there are differences in the way men and women describe things?
<Casey> I keep thinking of other male/female attitudes about clothing and profanity while we're talking about all these other things.
<Crispian> Forge ahead
<shorty103> interesting thought Casey
<crip> men cannot buy or dress with clothing unless it is simple. women take it all seriously. Too seriously
<Chipmonk> What are ties for?
<crip> i think the profanity thing is almost equal nowadays even though men are more vocal in their profanity
<Crispian> A measure of heirarchy
<shorty103> me nah! jogging pants and a sweat shirt for me thanks
<Chipmonk> Okay, how do you know when another guy's tie is higher up than yours?
<Casey> there were incredible differences in the sentences we came up with the night we were discussing description and I gave 4 different words that had to be combined into one sentence. That was an interesting revelation.
<Crispian> When I see the belt much lower than mine
<crip> a little above waist length
<crip> a few centimeters
<Chipmonk> No, I mean higher in the hierarchy of ties!
<Crispian> Ties originated in England
<Crispian> They were created for one purpose only
<Casey> Higher up as in "power position" or higher up as in shorter than yours?
<Crispian> to determine the aristrocrat from the comman man
<Crispian> That was their sole purpose
<crip> tying limbs to bedposts?
<Casey> easier to hang criminals?
<Chipmonk> Heh heh.
<Casey> (on the spur of the moment, that is)
<Chipmonk> But if two men have ties on, how do you judge?
<Crispian> Judge what Chip
<Chipmonk> Who is higher up in the hierarchy.
<Casey> Is it still true that red tie is highest on the rung, position wise?
<crip> you don't if you're a man. they understand the equal discomfort in wearing an infernal tie
<Chipmonk> Or is it just tied and tieless?
<Crispian> Just as you said Chip: Nothing more
<Chipmonk> Ties are a mystery to women.
<Crispian> What men use more as a measurement is the suit that accompanies the tie
<Crispian> Seer Sucker
<shorty103> I know how to tie a tie
<Crispian> Stylish
<Chipmonk> They all look alike to me too.
<Crispian> wide lapel
<Crispian> Lots of differences
<Crispian> Width
<Crispian> Statement
<Crispian> How much they cost
<Casey> Subtle differences.
<Crispian> Wide variety of prices
<Crispian> Some much more subtle than one might believe
<Casey> Do guys stand around asking each other how much they paid for their suit? Or do they just know by comparison shopping?
<crip> they ask
<Crispian> If you have bought many suits, you know right away how much
<Chipmonk> If you get a bunch of guys in the same room in grey suits, I can't tell which suit is better--unless someone's wearing a really out of date one--like a leisure suit.
<shorty103> I can't
<Crispian> But a man accustomed to wearing one can
<Crispian> I could look at a sportcoat for example and tell you if it was a JC Penny 99.00 or a Hart Schafner and Marx 700.00
<Chipmonk> I couldn't.
<shorty103> me neither
<Crispian> But it is association
<Casey> Can you judge a woman's apparel the same way, Chip?
<Chipmonk> Aha! A guy mystery!
<Crispian> heh heh
<Chipmonk> Not very well, it would have to be a drastic difference.
<Casey> I can tell if something looks expensive, but I can't attach a price to it.
<shorty103> I can't do either one
<Casey> And I certainly can't tell brand names.
<Chipmonk> But I've found the same items in K-Mart and an expensive store at very different prices, just different labels.
<Crispian> Most clothing manufacturers make for several labels
<Chipmonk> Being a monk, I'm not much into clothes, you see.
<Casey> Do guys comparison shop for their clothes?
<crip> whatever's cheapest
<shorty103> I am not that small, so I have to look to see what fits, prices do vary
<Crispian> Depends on the purpose being bought for
<Casey> Most of my clothing comes from Goodwill. I'm not big into latest fashions, either.
<Chipmonk> Utility or status.
<Crispian> Status
<shorty103> more utility for me
<Crispian> Example, if I am going into an important meeting
<Crispian> and I know my competition will also be there,
<Casey> work related--or for impressing women? Which carries the greater weight? Or does one carry over into the other?
<crip> I thought you kept all your outfits from the 70's, Casey?
<Crispian> Then the price of the suit may well determine who receives the sale
<crip> equal weight
<shorty103> yes that I can see, but around the house, it's a different story
<Crispian> Now women is an entirely different scenario
<Casey> I don't throw out anything, Crip. You know that.
<crip> just asking : )
<Chipmonk> Just Harold on occasion.
<crip> *L* ain't that the truth? poor poor Harold
<Casey> How so, Crispy? Wouldn't the power suit from the office impress the ladies as well? Even tho we haven't a clue what you paid for it?
<Crispian> Attracts a different sort of lady. One who is usually looking to screw her way to the top
<Casey> *L* chip.
<Casey> Gain status through marriage rather than on personal competence?
<shorty103> true Casey
<Chipmonk> What do you do for a living Crispy?
<Crispian> Try to wake up each morning? heh heh
<crip> *L* you beat me to it, chip, I was about to ask the same thing
<Casey> So how does a man dress to attract his ideal woman? And does he look for her in church rather than in a barroom?
<Chipmonk> Well, he hain't Archie the Arkansas woodchopper.
<Crispian> heh heh heh
<shorty103> lol
<Crispian> laughing hard
<crip> Depends, does he want a church type or a barroom type?
<Casey> You suspect Archie doesn't wear 3 piece suits, Chip?
<Crispian> You guys are great
<Chipmonk> Not Archie the A W C.
<Casey> Which kind would you wish to marry, Crip? (Assuming you'd ever want to marry)
<crip> neither
<Crispian> heh heh heh
<crip> any other choices? *L*
<Casey> Would you look in a college classroom?
<shorty103> I have never married, and I not sure I would want too
<crip> maybe
<crip> probably not
<Chipmonk> There's a good question, Do guys really believe there are two kinds of women?
<Crispian> Oh Yeah
<crip> I believe there are millions of kinds
<crip> don't be fooled. women want men to think there are only two types
<Crispian> Would you like their names?
<Chipmonk> Sure, Crispy.
<Crispian> Melva & Melba
<Casey> Yes! (More male secrets!!!)
<Crispian> heh heh
<Casey> We need a definition here, Crispian.
<Chipmonk> My mother's name is Melda.
<Crispian> No insult intended
<Casey> His was spelt with a b.
<Crispian> How about Edith or Ethyl
<Casey> Okay. Understand those two.
<Crispian> Thanks Casey, water getting steamier here all the time
<Chipmonk> I think Edith and Ethyl are the same kind.
<Crispian> One cooks with gas, the other creates gas
<Chipmonk> Oh, I wasn't insulted, Crisp.
<shorty103> lol
<Crispian> Thanks Chip: Wouldn't insult you for the World
<Chipmonk> What about Edith and Bambi?
<Crispian> Conjurs up some different meanings
<crip> Winifred and Tanya
<Crispian> That works crip
<Chipmonk> I have an aunt Winifred.
<Crispian> I do too Chip
<Casey> Jeez, they're insulting your entire family, Chip!
<Chipmonk> She was schizophrenic.
<Crispian> heh heh
<Chipmonk> How about a Joan?
<Crispian> I know a Joan, sexxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
<crip> Helga and Kim...old witch names if I ever heard any
<Casey> Thank you, Crip. I love you, too.
<crip> he he
<Chipmonk> Joan makes me think of Joan Crawford.
<shorty103> me too Chip
<Crispian> Not Me
<Casey> How do guys view "loose" women? Are they attracted or repelled?
<crip> repelled
<Crispian> Depends on how horny they are
<shorty103> I'm not going to touch that one
<Crispian> heh heh
<Casey> Is that attraction only for fun, but I'd never want to marry her?
<Crispian> Seriously?
<Casey> Serious question.
<Casey> And don't you guys ever worry about diseases?
<Crispian> Usually!
<crip> always
<Crispian> Sure: But codes of conduct are established
<Casey> Understand.
<Crispian> anticipation is more fun than actual consummation
<crip> so true
<shorty103> it's been so long since I have been with someone, I don't remember that feeling lol
<Casey> The one close male friend I've ever had this discussion with, he poo-pooed the incidence of contagious diseases. Made me wonder.
<Crispian> You will Rose!
<Chipmonk> Well, we've delved into the guy secrets. Don't you guys want to know stuff about women--like why they can't go to the bathroom without another woman?
<Crispian> Read escapade 4 Chip
<Crispian> I already know
<Casey> Or what we do in the bathroom once we get there?
<crip> my friend tells me all these women secrets. No wonder you're all so manipulative.
<shorty103> I do what I went in there for and then out again
<Crispian> heh heh heh Rose
<Chipmonk> Well, then explain it to me, Crispian, because I think it's weird.
<Casey> Do you ever begin a conversation with a stranger while in the bathroom?
<crip> men don't speak in the bathroom unless they're very very drunk
<shorty103> depends on where I am, and how many people are there, I might say hi, and then gone
<crip> my mother is reading that men are from mars..book. complete drivel, if you ask me.
<Chipmonk> And what planet was Norman Bates from?
<Crispian> One thing about public restrooms, the water is colder than even and VERY VERY DeeP
<crip> and toilets keep sinking lower and lower each year
<Crispian> Sure do Crip
<Chipmonk> Did somebody stick your head in a toilet, Crisp?
<Crispian> On one occassion,
<crip> yuck
<Casey> You'll have to explain that statement, Crispian.
<Crispian> Depends on which head we are talking about
<crip> YUCK
<Casey> ewwwwww!
<crip> there goes my dinner
<Casey> (Is Crispian bragging here??)
<Crispian> roaring , falling out of chair
<Chipmonk> Oh, Lord!
<crip> Casey, you're not helping
<Casey> Sorry, Crip. Couldn't help myself.
<crip> just like the rest of the ladies apparently
<crip> *L*
<Casey> At least you're still using the term "lady" to refer to me. I'll take that as a good sign.
<crip> and the old witch bag of bones and dust
<Casey> Well, Halloween is coming . . .
<crip> didn't mean to leave you out, casey.
<crip> and xmas too
<Casey> :-) har har har
<crip> and then easter and summer and halloween again
<Casey> Wow! So that's how that works! (Have I killed Crispian?)
<Crispian> Nope, just drying off
<Casey> ha ha!
<crip> EW
<Chipmonk> Oh?
<Casey> He laughed so hard he has tears in his eyes.
<Crispian> roaring
<crip> I hope those are tears or we are all in deep trouble
<Casey> Guess I can't talk anymore. Crispian thinks every thing I say is funny now.
<crip> you're old of course it is funny
<Crispian> Sorry Casey
<crip> she's not?
<Chipmonk> I'm choking!
<Casey> No problem, Crispian. I've found my niche in the world--entertainment value.
<crip> yes she is
<crip> in Virginia with the rest of the carnival attractions
<Casey> taking this all in and remembering it, young'un.
<crip> yeah like you'll remember it five minutes from now
<crip> in every woman's heart, a tiny witch lives
<crip> although a witch rodent, i have not yet encountered
<Chipmonk> Well, actually, it is because of a witch that I am here.
<crip> i see. the old one's curses reach many
<Casey> Don't look at me Crip! This is a story before my time.
<Chipmonk> It's a long story.
<crip> you mean the actual seven days of creation?
<crip> *L*
<Casey> Reaching back to the 12th century, is it, Chip?
<crip> so much can happen in a week
<Chipmonk> Yes, I ate her beans.
<Casey> Yes, indeed.
<shorty103> wow! Chip
<crip> i'm still trapped in this beanstalk because some old woman sold me some beans
<Casey> (Uh-oh! remembering the "cooks with gas or creates gas" theory.)
<crip> YOU! I knew you did this to me!!!!
<crip> *L*
<Chipmonk> Well, that was the problem, they were her majic beans and they gave me gas and blew me clear into cyberspace in the 20th century.
<Crispian> yeah yeah yeah
<shorty103> BWL
<crip> we're not smiling, rose. this evil witch woman beaned us
<Chipmonk> heh heh.
<Casey> Same ol' story, huh, Crispy? How many times have you heard that line?
<shorty103> no way, that what happened
<Crispian> laughing
<shorty103> bursting at the seams are you Crispian
<Casey> Crispian and I were talking about pick-up lines the other day. Have any of you got some good ones?
<Crispian> Enjoying the great company I am keeping
<crip> for all we know, crispy could be trapped in a bean bag chair!
<Chipmonk> Ick!
<crip> is your father a thief? because he stole the stars from the sky and put them in your eyes
<Casey> Shudder. Not bean bag chairs!!
<Crispian> Or hugging a critter!
<crip> oh hush. i own a bean bag chair.
<Casey> oh, nice one, Crip!
<Chipmonk> You pick up girls with that?!
<crip> no, I do not use pick up lines
<Crispian> I do shakesphere
<Chipmonk> Must be jelly cuz jam don't shake.
<Casey> The funniest one I ever got was, "Didn't I go to school with your father?"
<crip> *L* I like that one, chip
<shorty103> I don't remember any of the one's that was used on me
<Crispian> Chip: What was the funniest line ever used on you
<Chipmonk> You such a sweet li'l ole gal! I shore would like to kiss on you!
<crip> buck toothed women are sexy
<crip> *L*
<Crispian> Got lots of Daisy Mae's around here crip
<Casey> I got the "I'd like to show you my stereo."
<Crispian> heh heh
<crip> what did harold use on you?
<Casey> (It was about the size of a toaster. . .)
<Chipmonk> That was used by a little old man who sold religious medals on the street. Ewwww!
<crip> wanna see my collection of john denver records?
<Casey> What are you doing Friday night?
<Chipmonk> Let's go to a motel so we can watch television.
<crip> that's it?
<Casey> laughing, Chip!
<Chipmonk> Wanna f...
<Crispian> Oh mY
<Casey> Harold is very straightforward. No pick up lines.
<crip> wanna shave my back hair?
<shorty103> no thanks
<Chipmonk> Yuck!
<crip> it's a bad pick up line, rose. I'm not serious
<Casey> Wanna breed? was in the movie Willow.
<shorty103> good I keep my ears open for that one and then run
<crip> speaking of willow, my friend told me once the perfect pick up line was 'hi, i'm val kilmer.'
<Chipmonk> What's your sign?
<Casey> My sign reads, "Crazed writer at work. Enter at your own risk."
<Chipmonk> Answer: No Parking.
<Casey> (My sign does not work, BTW)
<shorty103> I wish I had a door to hang a sign on, to much wrought iron around here
<Chipmonk> Prison bars?
<Crispian> Me too rose, I am tired of writing in a cornfield
<shorty103> no, walls!
<Chipmonk> Wrought iron walls?
<shorty103> yes
<Chipmonk> Hmmm.
<shorty103> the three cats run right through them
<shorty103> they use the house as a race track
<Chipmonk> So, what about turn down lines?
<crip> sorry, I have to wash my hair.
<Casey> See the drummer in the band? That's my husband.
<Chipmonk> I have plants to water.
<Crispian> huh!
<crip> if you don't mind going out with someone who's lost all bladder control
<Casey> I'm waiting for a phone call.
<Casey> lol, Crip!!!
<Chipmonk> Do you mind puss?
<shorty103> lol
<Chipmonk> Good one crip!
<Casey> Have you ever had malaria?
<Crispian> heh heh
<crip> as long as my rodent friend comes with us
<Chipmonk> Hey!
<crip> oh.. didn't realize what I just said. apologies, chip.
<crip> if we can skip the whip cream in favor of the boiling cheddar
<Chipmonk> You'll have to ask my girlfriend first (said by a girl).
<crip> *L* good one chip
<Chipmonk> Ewwww, crip!
<Chipmonk> Sure, but could I first get a sample of your DNA?
<Casey> Oh? What did you get on your last HIV test?
<crip> as long as you babysit while I'm gone
<Casey> Or, The kids'll have to come with us. I can't get a babysitter on such short notice.
<Chipmonk> That would definitely be a turn off, Casey.
<Chipmonk> Can my husband Killer watch?
<crip> if you can pass this nice i.q. test
<Casey> Our turn-down lines are certainly more creative than our pick-up lines.
<shorty103> yes, never thought of using them for my story
<Casey> Has anyone another burning curiosity about the opposite sex that we haven't covered yet?
<Casey> Or even just a wonder?
<crip> none that we can speak of in public
<Casey> ooooohhhh! NOW you've piqued my curiosity.
<Casey> But I'll respect your sensibilities.
<crip> thank you
<Chipmonk> What happened to Crispian?
<Crispian> his hands are getting tired writing all these great pick up lines down
<Chipmonk> Were you planning to use them?
<Casey> then my job here is ended for another night. We can chat or fall out of our chairs or whatever you prefer.
<shorty103> men, you can't live and you can't live without them
<Crispian> No plans, just roll em from the cuff
<Casey> Good party one-liners, huh?
<crip> thanks, rose, I'll keep that in mind
<Chipmonk> No, it's you can't live with em and you just can't shoot em.
<Crispian> Well all, think I will send you tidings
<Crispian> Thanks for the wonderful time
<Crispian> Enjoyed it immensely
<Casey> Glad you could join us, Crispian.
<shorty103> yes, it has been fun
<Chipmonk> Same to you and thanks for all the answers to those male mysteries.
<Casey> Yeah! Answers to questions we never knew we should have asked.
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