CHAT ARCHIVE - 5-1-99, Publishing

--------------------------------------
       ICQ Chat Save file    
Started on Sat May 01 23:52:20 1999

--------------------------------------
<Zach> BTW, Casey, the MAN-LIKE copy is up at Amazon; no cover art yet.
<Casey> Oh, cool, Zach!
<Zach> I was surprised it was so quick.
<Bookpal> I have a gift certificate at Amazon - now I know what to get with
it
<shorty103> who is this Casey, I have not met this person before! Or have
I?
<Casey> We have two guest visitors tonight.  Most of you know AUSBomber as
Phychic.
<Casey> And DrgnLady will be joining us for tonight only, as well.
<Zach> Ooh, a sale.  And you can do a review there, too.
<Bookpal> That's right - you can, cool
<AUSBomber> Casey: I do not recognize anyone here, so I doubt they know me
<Zach> Don't pay attention to the "4-6 week" ship date.
<shorty103> we have never met. Hello AUSBomber
<AUSBomber> Hello Shorty103
<Bookpal> Hi AUSBomber
<Zach> Hello, everyone I don't know.
<AUSBomber> Hello Bookpal
<shorty103> My name is Rose, May I just type Bomber?
<AUSBomber> you can call me Andy if you like
<Bookpal> Andy, works
<shorty103> that is much better
<Casey> Welcome, Dragon Lady.
<DrgnLdy_> hi:)
<shorty103> So what is the topic tonight Casey?  I'm only going to be here
for about an hour, then it bed time.
<frankay> hehe im finally able to be here
<Casey> Everyone, Rose is shorty103, AUSBomber is Andy.
<AUSBomber> chipmonk: you might remember me as Phychic
<Spinner> heehee, I'm not sure i'd remember if we had met, Rose.  I've been
pretty busy and things don't have TIME to get moved into long term memory.
<Chipmonk> How was the conference Bookpal?
<Bookpal> Great!
<Chipmonk> Great enough you're ready to start on another one?
<Bookpal> Spinner and friends sent ebooks - sure fit in with the future
theme
<Bookpal> NO!!
<Chipmonk> Heh heh.
<Spinner> Warning: My pinkie fingers decide work day is over about 6 my
time, so shift keys don't get pushed all the way down.  About 10, all the
fingers start working only part time.
<Casey> Rose, to answer your earlier question (and for everyone else):
Topic tonight is Submitting a manuscript for publication, and publishing in
general.  Both e-publishing and print publication.
<Casey> Spinner is our resident Z7 expert on e-publication, and Zach is
here to update my knowledge of print publication.
<shorty103> now this should be interesting.  I am at a stand still with my
writing.
<Spinner> Why, rose?
<shorty103> another project on the go, not writing, and a big writers block
<Zach> I have some experience in both arenas, Casey, but Spinner no doubt
knows worlds more in the e-publishing area.
<Zach> May I ask an opening question?
<Casey> Sure, Zach
<Spinner> Heehee, enough to tell ink spot they didn't know what they were
talking about last night, anyway.
<Zach> Does everyone understand the basic mechanics of preparing a
manuscript for submission to print publications?
<Bookpal> Yes
<shorty103> well, the first thing that comes to mind is format.
<Casey> It won't hurt to run down what they are, Zach.
<Zach> By that I mean printing your ms in a decent font (Courier, usually),
12 point, double-spaced on one side of white paper, margins of 1 inch, sent
in plain white or manilla envelope with SASE for reply.
<shorty103> I keep hearing about this SASE, but what is it?
<Zach> No fancy fonts, colored paper, two-sided printing, forget dot matrix
at this point in history, don't fold your ms and stuff it into a little
envelope, add enough return postage.
<Casey> Self Addressed, Stamped Envelope.
<shorty103> okay, now I understand, and thanks
<Spinner> Send one big enough to return your manuscript with enough postage
to do so if you want it back.
<Casey> Also, grammar, capitalization and spelling should be traditional
standard.
<Casey> Use the spell checker on your computers.
<Zach> Okay, with that being said I'd like to offer one piece of advice for
any aspiring writer: the keyword is VOLUME.
<Zach> What does this mean?
<Zach> If you write one short story, and work on it and work on it till
it's perfect, then proceed to mail it out for a year and not write another
thing till its fate is settled, you will fail.
<Spinner> Write fast, write good, edit well and send out lots.
<Zach> Right, Spinner.
<Zach> To make the odds be in your favor, come up to the plate more and
swing more.
<Zach> You'll place maybe 1-2% when you first start out.  1% of one ms
submitted to 10 markets is still not a sale (unless you get lucky).  1% of
100 submissions is 1 sale.
<Bookpal> I'm listening to the Mariners - like your choice of words
<Spinner> Send publishers enough DIFFERENT manuscripts they begin to
recognize your name.  'Prolific' is a good thing.
<shorty103> sounds great, I just need more stories to write, getting this
one done has been a long process.
<Casey> Not only do multiple submissions improve your chances of finding a
publisher for one of your stories, but writing that much also improves your
writing overall.
<Zach> Take Spinner's advice, Rose, write more.  The more you write, the
better you get.  YOu can work a story to death, and still end up with
nothing to show for it.
<Bookpal> Old saying - takes a 100 no's to get a yes
<Zach> Right, Booky.
<shorty103> I hear ya on that one!
<Spinner> I wrote 20 novels before I submitted one.  It wasn't until after
I finished the twenty that I went back and edited the first.
<Chipmonk> And don't put all your eggs in one basket.
<Zach> I have well over 100 rejections in seven years of serious writing.
I also (now) have over 40 publications.  They weren't the first 40
submissions, though.
<Bookpal> Good point, Chip
<shorty103> understood
<Zach> More baskets, right!
<Zach> Write write write.
<Zach> Submit submit submit.
<Spinner> And read, read read.  Read your own work aloud.
<Bookpal> true
<Zach> Sooner or later an editor will give you a clue as to what you're
doing wrong (if anything, and it's likely).  Although some of the advice
will not be good, if you hear the same thing over and over, bet on its
being right.
<Casey> And don't let all the rejections discourage you.  Some rejections
happen for reasons that have nothing to do with the quality of your
story--like its subject matter doesn't fit the publication's needs.
<shorty103> now that one's hard to swallow for me, I just don't like the
sound of my own voice.
<Chipmonk> If you have one story you're sending around, it can get
discouraging, but if you have something else to send to a publisher
already, there's no time for letting the rejection get to you.
<Zach> And some are just plain stupid.  But it's just part of the game.
<Spinner> Get used to it, Rose.  You'll have to read your work at book
signings and genre conventions if you DO sell it.  Publishers require it as
part of promotion.
<Zach> I've had stories rejected before I even sent them out, stories I was
specifically asked to write rejected, and I'm sure some other really dumb
things that I can't recall at the moment.
<Bookpal> The first story I submitted was to Mary Higgins-Clark magazine -
it folded - how's that for an omen?
<Zach> Oh, I had one publisher compel me to withdraw some stuff by having
it "edited" by a moron (or perhaps it was him in disguise).
<Casey> lol, Bookie!
<shorty103> Oh my! Now I'm in big trouble.  I will try that exercise, but
no promises.
<Zach> Booky, I have killed at least four publications, near as I can tell.
<Chipmonk> I sell stories to mags and THEN they fold.
<Bookpal> that makes me feel better
<Zach> Oh, me too, Chip.
<Bookpal> lol
<Zach> Before the check gets cut.
<Chipmonk> I'm glad to hear that, Zach, I thought it was just me.
<Spinner> speaking of folding, Quill just published their last issue.
<Zach> heh heh.  Sorry, Chip, couldn't let you take all the credit.
<Chipmonk> I thought I was a jinx.
<Zach> I've heard of Quill.
<Jen> Zach, just don't tell the editors you have a 'hit list'.<g>
<Bookpal> A friend, Robin Lee Hatcher, sold her first book - publisher went
bankrupt - but company who bought it picked up her book - tells you it was
a good one
<Zach> I keep mouth firmly closed almost all the time, Jen <g>
<Zach> Good for her, Booky.
<Casey> Like, Zach starts submitting and the publisher gets nervous?
<Zach> Yeah, they call in tears.
<Spinner> *giggle*
<Chipmonk> What's really awful is when the publisher dies on you!  Had that
happen several times.
<Casey> And once you submit a work, don't expect a speedy reply.
<Zach> Dies?  As in death?
<Spinner> Oh, heavens!
<Zach> Or one at all, Casey.  I subbed OWC to Bantam, and a year plus later
they wrote back to say the editor had left.  Gee, thanks, guys.
<Chipmonk> Yep, I killed Donald A. Wollheim, a couple of others.
<shorty103> I know from what I have read, that it can take up to a year to
hear back from a publisher.
<Zach> Like, we don't pass these mss to the editors taking the place of the
other editors, requires too much brain power.
<Zach> On books, yes, Rose.  Shorts are a week to very long, depending.
<Chipmonk> And when editors move, sometimes your book goes with them.
<Casey> And remember, that simultaneous submissions are still not
acceptable.
<shorty103> which is easier to publish, on the internet, or hard cover, as
in real books?
<Zach> That depends too, Casey.
<Spinner> That's why it's important you write another and another and
another and...
<Zach> I used a "timed" approach: submit to one market, wait a week or two
and then send to the next one.  If you get an acceptance, you can always
withdraw.  Getting two or three or four on the same story is millions to
one unlikely.  It cuts down on the time you have to wait.
<Zach> On short stories.  Wanted to clarify.
<Chipmonk> I've always been afraid to do that, Zach.
<Zach> For books, one at a time is generally best.
<Casey> That can be stated in the cover letter to the editor, too.
<Spinner> Rose, e-books are 'real' books.  You can argue the point with
Silverberg, Anthony and King if you wish.
<Zach> Most savvy people do what I suggest, Chip.
<Jen> I might have to try that, since I've had two out since January, and
no word.
<Zach> If they accept simsubs, then it's fine, just tell them.
<shorty103> well, when I say real books, I mean the type that buy at the
store.
<Zach> Is everyone here interested in submitting short stories or novels?
<Zach> Or both?
<Casey> Every publisher has writers' guidelines, either posted in their
magazine or available for the asking.
<Casey> Writers' Market also lists specific requirements of every publisher
listed.
<Spinner> I'm a novelist perios.  I've got a couple short stories, but I
know the books are better.
<Bookpal> both
<Jen> both
<Casey> Novels.
<Zach> BTW, if anyone likes reading short fiction on the web, I have a
story which will be up at Jackhammer e-zine in a week.  My lighter side.
<shorty103> novel in progress
<Bookpal> Cool, Zach
<Spinner> I wanna' read it, Zach.
<Zach> There are distinct differences in submitting to those markets, which
is why I asked.
<Chipmonk> Conga Rats, Zach!
<Jen> Great news, Zach! That's a good e-zine
<Casey> The e-zines have How to Submit to Us guidelines, as well.
<Bookpal> I have two shorts I would like to polish and submit just for
reactions
<Zach> Thanks, Chip.  It ain't much money, but it's money, and the short
ficiton markets all pay zilch when you get right down to it.
<Casey> you're on a roll, Zach!
<Bookpal> no kidding
<Zach> I do suggest checking out Jackhammer.  Raechel's good to work with.
<Zach> Actually, it's a reprint, my third there.  I love making money from
reprints.
<Zach> Thanks, Jen.
<DrgnLdy_> (me has gotta go in a few... sleep is a good thing)
<Chipmonk> Where are you, Dragonlady?
<Zach> Understand, Dragon.
<DrgnLdy_> Tennessee
<Casey> Understand, Dragon Lady.  If you're interested in joining us again,
I'll send you the URL to our site, where is our official application to
join.
<DrgnLdy_> ok
<AUSBomber> casey: did you send me that URL?
<Casey> No, but I will--to both of you.
<AUSBomber> thanks
<Spinner> The only problem i have is writing a story to 'specifications.'
<Casey> Explain, Spinner?
<Zach> My suggestion is to write the story you want to write, then see if
it fits anywhere.
<Chipmonk> I know what you mean!
<Spinner> i have enough trouble with length.  subject too is pretty much
out of the question.
<Zach> This writing to spec idea sucks.
<Jen> I agree with Zach.
<Chipmonk> And most contests seem to be like that.
<Spinner> OK, ready to learn a bit about submitting to e-pubs?
<Zach> Go, Spin.
<Casey> I have written to length.  It's a good exercise to try, but I
wouldn't want a steady diet of it.
<Casey> Yes!
<Spinner> to start with, they're not looking for 'just like what's in the
bookstores.'
<DrgnLdy_> well, i'll see ya'll later... gonna get to bed now:)
<DrgnLdy_> bye all:)
<Zach> Night, Dragon.
<Casey> Goodnight, D.Lady
<shorty103> nite all.
<Bookpal> Bye, Dragon
<Spinner> Night.
<Chipmonk> Night Dragon.
<Zach> See what you did, Spinner?  Chased 'em off.  :-)
<Spinner> The type of novel that works best for e-publishers is 'something
different.'
<AUSBomber> yes, I must go to, I have to do some research, and clean the
house.
<Casey> Now, now, Zach! 
<Zach> heh heh
<Chipmonk> Night, bomber.
<Casey> Goodnight, Andy.  Glad you could join us.
<Spinner> happens all the time.  I look for captive audiences.
<Zach> ('course, it might've been me)
<Spinner> I once did a rock concert in a prison.
<Bookpal> wow
<Zach> And no prison riot?  Cool.
<Casey> Now that IS a captive audience, Spinner!
<AUSBomber> nice meeting you all, and seeing some old faces again
<Zach> I'm havin' fun tonight.
<Spinner> US Army disciplinary barracks at Ft Leavenworth.
<Casey> Later, Andy
<Spinner>   OK, i'm a bit slow tonight.  Now, what does 'different' mean?
<Casey> By different, are e-publishers looking for different content, or
different style, or what?
<Casey> (No fair!  I was already typing mine when you asked that!)
<Spinner> It means cross-genre, target audience, pace and a bunch more.
which depends on the publisher.
<Casey> Pace, as in fast-paced?
<Spinner> SF romance is doing well.
<Casey> Ahhhh, those sexy green bugs!
<Chipmonk> I can't write that
<Spinner> Yes, Casey, very fast paced is specifically sought by some
e-pubs.
<Jen> What e-publishers are you talking about?
<Jen> My mind is wandering tonight. <g>
<Spinner> Dreams Unlimited, hard Shell word Factory, Crossroads publishing,
Awestruck, Starlite, hyperbooks, Domhan, 
<Spinner> In general, they will take longer or shorter works than print
publishers.
<Casey> Do all of those produce/sell floppies and/or CD's, or posted to
site only?
<Spinner> they also like books written for a faster reading speed and higer
intelligence market.
<Bookpal> Hard Shell and Crossroads made great donations to our conference
<Jen> Casey, you asked my question. :-)
<Chipmonk> Cool, BP!
<Casey> (Stop that, Jen!  Get out of my head!)
<Jen> (Me?!?)
<Casey> he he
<Jen> :-P
<Spinner> Nearly all e-book publishers will sell on floppies as well as
download.  CDs are more expensive and a single book isn't really worth a CD
unless there's music and/or graphics.
<Jen> Have you bought any? Were they good?
<Bookpal> on the CD's is the book audio or do you have to read it on
screen?
<Spinner> I've bought several.  It's really the only way to learn what a
publisher wants.
<Chipmonk> BP asked my question!!
<Bookpal> great minds......
<Spinner> It's text from most, but Fiction Works does dramatized audio.
<Jen> I'll have to check them out. I read something about Dreams Unlimited
somewhere recently.
<Spinner> I've got a ten novel series with eleven compositions by two great
midi composers that should be out this month.
<Bookpal> Libraries are starting to buy audio books on CD to check out -
have had them on tapes for a long time
<Casey> Do they supply the technical expertise/collaboration with the
author to produce something like dramatizations?
<Spinner> Dreams Unlimited is strictly romance, but it's unusual romance.
<Spinner> They supply everything but the script and you must convert your
SHORT novel to a script for them.
<Jen> I can't remember where I read the note about D.U.
<Zach> I don't have too much faith at this time in e-publishing, so am sort
of sitting back and listening to the conversation.
<Casey> Yea who e-publishes!
<Zach> No, not short stories, but rather novels, Casey.
<Casey> Okay.
<Bookpal> I've noticed more ezines are paying now
<Zach> If you can get $0.01 per word for a short story, doesn't matter if
it's print or e.
<Zach> People will read a short work on the screen faster than they will a
novel.
<Bookpal> true
<Chipmonk> Hard on the eyes.
<Casey> I have trouble looking at a comp screen for extended periods of
time, myself.
<Casey> And being a slow reader doesn't help.
<Zach> Well, I have a question: I think all the people left in the chat
except for fran already know how to submit their work to the markets.  Does
this mean that most of these people are simply unserious writers?
<Zach> I mean, I like the concept of less competition, don't get me wrong.
<Spinner> LOL
<Casey> You're asking if we're unserious writers?
<Spinner> You know I'm not 'unserious.
<Bookpal> Do you mean us or the ones who left?
<Zach> No, those who yawned and left.
<Zach> Sorry I wasn't clear.
<Zach> Congratulations, fran.
<Casey> The Australian members are in a completely different time zone.
<Spinner> I think we said e-pub and they were sure that's not 'real' books.

<frankay> for what zach
<Zach> That makes sense.  How many were there?
<Zach> AUSbomber I figured out.
<Zach> I guess DragonLady is too?
<Casey> Rose is an hour ahead of me and has to get up at 6:30 a.m.
<Spinner> Oh, well, that makes me feel a bit better.
<Casey> No, she's from Tennessee.
<frankay> why was i being congradulated?
<frankay> scuse me spelling haven't been sleeping well
<Zach> For sticking around to learn more about your craft.
<frankay> hmm
<frankay> np
<Zach> Writing is a hard enough business for the serious, and those of us
who work full-time and write in spare time, and keep on submitting and
trying, will succeed, while those who get tired easily or wait for
inspiration won't.
<Bookpal> My family knows I'm serious - just brought my dinner to me
<frankay> Casey someone put one of my short short essays on her webpage
<Chipmonk> I don't submit for pub and I'm still here.  So what am I?
Serious or not?
<Spinner> Get some nice herb tea, frankay.  ask for something to help you
rest better from a good herbalist.  I did and it really helped.
<Zach> Oh, I know you are, Booky.
<Casey> Great, Fran!  That's exciting, and a real compliment to you.
<Jen> That's hopefully true, Zach. (About the succeeding part. <g>)
<Zach> Chip, you are a serious artist, are you not?
<Zach> And working on a cover piece for me, right?  <heh heh>
<Chipmonk> No, I'm silly.
<frankay> its one u haven't seen
<Zach> But you work hard at silliness, right?
<Spinner> Casehip, i think of you as a writer on sabbatical to do art.
<Casey> Will you send me the URL to your friend's webpage?
<Bookpal> she is seriously silly
<Chipmonk> I wish Zach!  I'm very unhappy with everything I try.  Does it
have to be cross hatch?
<frankay> yes'm
<Casey> Thank you.  I'd like to read it.
<Spinner> LOL, I will learn to backup all the way in this chat ONE of these
days.
<Zach> Well, do your best and let me see what it looks like.  How about a
line drawing?
<Chipmonk> Who is Casehip?
<frankay> can i like send it to u  on file
<frankay> i cant find the url
<Chipmonk> I will ignore all of your specs Zach and see what happens.
<Spinner> It was start a message to casey, then switch to one to chip in
the middle.
<Zach> Y'all don't mind me, I'm just grumbling about unserious writers.
<Casey> That's fine, Fran.
<Zach> Good, Chip!  Don't ever listen to me, it's ruined many a person.
<frankay> how can u say someone inst serious or unserious
<Chipmonk> I thought maybe Casey and I were in that transporter in "the
Fly".
<frankay> if u don't know who or how they are??
<Zach> Only on the smallest amount of information, which is probably
incorrect.
<Spinner> I know why the grumble, Zach.  i grumble too.  My big grumble is
those who write one book and think they've now 'done everything ' to BE a
writer.
<Chipmonk> I seriously do unserious stuff, Frankay.  I do a lot of humor
))))>
<frankay> i may not pay attention to the meetings here but i do read over
them later and i write good stuff for a 16 year old
<Zach> What does "stuff" mean?
<frankay> stuff
<frankay> short stories
<frankay> essays
<frankay> writings
<Zach> I never said you were unserious, fran; in fact, I complimented you
for staying here, going on the concept that you were trying to learn.
<Casey> I like Fran's poetry.
<Spinner> frankay, you've made up your mind to be a writer.  You have a
looooong time to work on it.
<Zach> Casey asked me to come here tonight to help advise New Writers on
submissions.  I did my Make a Novel Workshop chat last night, but I didn't
consider it a big imposition, because I do want to help new writers.
<Bookpal> It's great you are working on it at your age - wish I would have
<Chipmonk> You're right Frankay.
<frankay> i mean its cool zack u realy smart at this
<Zach> I have five budding novelists who want to write books, and I am
trying to help them.  They come to the chats, and stay for the duration.
They'll make it.
<Spinner> It's a question we all want to ask new writers many times,
frankay.  
<Casey> You missed the print publication part of this discussion.  We're
into e-publishing now.
<frankay> i see
<crip> no problemo
<frankay> what in ya'lls words is a serious writer?
<Spinner> Are they aware of what it really takes to do this.  basically, if
you CAN do anything else, you should.  this is the hardest profession there
is from which to make a living.
<Zach> Do you write every day?
<frankay> nope
<frankay> i write wen i feel it in my heart
<Zach> What are your goals as a writer?
<Spinner> she's a poet, Zach.
<frankay> and i get some paper and i just write what's in my heart and it
comes out to be something that everyone likes
<Bookpal> it's when you eat, sleep, play around your writing
<Bookpal> It's when your day job feels like it is in the way of your
writing
<frankay> i don't have any goals as a writer zack
<frankay> i write for fun
<Zach> Okay, fran.  Understand.
<frankay> i write to get all the depression and stuff out of me onto paper
so i wont have it inside me tearing me up
<Chipmonk> Fun is good.
<Spinner> frankay, i did that for over thity-five years before I wrote my
first story.
<Zach> That's probably a good thing, and you do have a writing goal.
<Jen> Bookpal, definitely!!!
<Goshwin> *Grin*
<frankay> casey how did u like those 2 essays?
<Casey> I'm sorry, fran, but I haven't been able to read what you just sent
me and keep up with the chat, too.
<Casey> The last story that I read of yours, tho, had a heartwarming
ending, even though your protagonist died.
<frankay> so did my second long story casey
<frankay> thanks casey
<Casey> If you keep going the way you are with your writing, Fran, you will
have just as good a chance of being published as anyone else.
<Casey> Gosh, did you have any questions about either print or e-publishing
(which is tonight's official topic)
<Goshwin> *Urk?* suddenly a jump to a topic! humm I would mostly be curious
about paper publishing, short works, Sci fi. 10K word ranges that sort of
thing (Anyone done this?) (grin)
<Zach> Sure, Gosh.
<Zach> But 10K will be too much for most pubs.
<Spinner> Yep.
<Zach> You should stick to 2-5K.
<Chipmonk> That's a lot of pages Gosh.
<Zach> Pay range from nothing to $0.10 per word.
<Goshwin> or shall I correct myself and say 5 to 10K (the range I am
currently planning for)
<Bookpal> 2 - 5 is the range I see most often
<Zach> Your odds at one in five to one in a thousand, depending on the
market and what it pays.
<Chipmonk> Figure four pages per thousand.  You've got a 40 pager there!
<Zach> Stay away from over about 6K, that's my advice.
<Spinner> the ten centers have large STACKS of manuscripts in their in
boxes daily.
<Zach> Just read the guidelines, it will become quickly clear.
<frankay> hehe its funny how can ppl submit stuff over the internet  to get
published
<Zach> SF Age and one other (can't remember the name) are the only $.10 per
word market.
<frankay> when half the time no one reads ur stuff
<Chipmonk> Especially if you're new, they don't want to waste a lot of
space on you when you have no name recognition.
<Zach> But somebody might, fran.
<Goshwin> !? oh!  he he most of my "Little junk " ends up in that range..
(he he ok duly noted)
<Zach> If you ever get a piece of fan mail, you'll think it was worth it.
<Spinner> I know when someone reads my 'stuff', frankay.  i get a check.
<frankay> get a check??
<Zach> Yeah, moolah.
<Spinner> i know when they read my 'free stuff too.'  I have great site
statistics program.
<frankay> cool
<frankay> i have to stop writing so much
<Spinner> Yes, i get 50% of the price of every book sold by any of my
publishers.
<Chipmonk> I sold a greeting card and got 15 dollars and a 60 pager and got
the same--go figure!
<frankay> I'm probably gona give up writing and start working full time
<Spinner> you'll be surprised how much work helps your writing.  It's new
experiences that expand your horizons.
<Chipmonk> I'm surprised at how often I need little bits from jobs I've
had--like restaurant work to make a scene seem authentic.
<Spinner> It may seem you have less time to write, but what you do write
will have more depth.
<Goshwin> Now that is an interesting way to look at work..(chuckle) hard to
see Engineering in that light
<Zach> So at 16 you'll be going to school and working full-time.  That's
about 80 hours a week.
<Zach> A lot for a young person to take on.
<frankay> during the summer zach
<Casey> But your engineering experience comes through in your stories,
Gosh. 
<Zach> Oh, I get it.
<Zach> But you know, fran, I work full time and still write.  Why give it
up?
<Spinner> Doesn't the engineering and the people you meet while engaged in
it add depth to your work, Gosh?
<frankay> zach not really that's only minor
<Chipmonk> Work lots of different jobs.  Pay attention to customers and how
they act.
<Casey> And listen to the stories they tell!
<Casey> Real-life stories from their own lives, that is.
<Goshwin> HUmm.. It does? (he he getting pecular images of domestic
products and SF)
<Bookpal> that's why everyone thinks I should write about prisons - they
love the stories I tell them
<Zach> Yeah, Booky, do that prison fiction thing :-)
<Casey> My favorite segments of yours, Bookpal, are your prison experience
pieces.
<Spinner> nah, use what you learned about people and write something
unexpected. ;)
<Bookpal> I do know the criminal mind - lol
<Zach> I have this image of you poring over the criminal mind, like Spock.
<Zach> Your thoughts are my thoughts.  <shudder>
<Bookpal> the funniest thing I ever read was when a friends children wrote
a classified ad - trying to sell her
<Spinner> Hi, gosh.has anyone got a specific 'odd' work that I can help
them with a publisher rec?
<Chipmonk> Everything I've written is odd.
<Bookpal> I'm reading where book publishers not only want the "perfect"
book, but want you to have a marketing plan for it
<Spinner> Sounds like an e-publisher's dream writer, Chip.
<Zach> They say it helps you sell it, Booky.
<Casey> The part about needing a marketing plan has been in existence for a
good long while now.
<Goshwin> Man, publishing is sounding more and more like the impossible
mission
<Spinner> yeah, and if you've got one they don't have to spend money on
doing it.
<Zach> Publishing is close to impossible, Gosh, but that's been true for a
long time.
<Chipmonk> Yep!
<Bookpal> I have a plan - which puts me on a tight schedule to get it
finished
<Zach> As another author told me, overnight success takes about 25 years.
<Bookpal> lol
<Casey> someone was writing about the success of their book (got to the
bestseller list) and she said it was because she promoted it herself
because the publisher basically didn't do anything except print the thing.
<Zach> Don't mean to throw cold water on you, Booky, but you need 2-3 years
lead time for publication.
<Spinner> Gosh, there were a number of writers who had several books
published a year on the Prodigy BB.  they set up their own book signing
tours and asked who lived where so they could spend night NOT in a motel
because publishers don't pay for them.
<Bookpal> I know
<Zach> That really tightens your schedule, 'cuase it'll take a year or more
to sell it, probably.
<Bookpal> I remember that Spinner
<Bookpal> I know - working toward the impossible
<Zach> But don't give up, because I think it's a very good concept for a
book.
<Chipmonk> Most of the authors I know have had to do their own promotion
and those who did it well went on.  Those who didn't died not trying.
<Goshwin> The strange thing is.. I could try for my whole life to publish..
Yet without trying, I am likely to produce a product that everyone may buy
(a big demo for a major car maker went well) humm life is like that I guess
<Zach> Even could have motion picture possibilities.
<Spinner> Publishers DON'T promote books unless they've got a major fortune
invested in them.
<Zach> It's getting late for me too, folks.  Anybody got any questions they
want to ask (though I may not have a useful answer)?
<Chipmonk> Yeah, Zach, let us know when you figure out what goes on in
editor's heads.
<Zach> heh heh
<Spinner> It's not the editors you have to convince any more, chip.  they
don't have the 'say' on any book.  the marketing department does.
<Zach> I think the key to publishing success is to 1) write and submit a
lot, 2) get better at writing and keep submitting a lot, and 3) get a lucky
break one day.
<Bookpal> good points, Zach
<Chipmonk> Good, but sad, point Spinner.
<Bookpal> I think Spinner is right
<Zach> And on that note, I think I shall retire for the evening.
<Casey> The same marketing dept. that demands the writers market their own
work?
<Chipmonk> Oh, want a laugh!
<Bookpal> can't submit if you don't finish anything - my problem
<Spinner> that's the one.
<Zach> You got it, Casey!
<Goshwin> Rodents dont have a life span, more like a halflife (a techy type
joke)
<Casey> Okay.  Good night, Zach.  Thank you for coming and sharing your
experience and wisdom with us.
<Zach> I shall whip you till you do, Booky.
<Spinner> good night, Zach.
<Bookpal> counting on it, Zach
<Zach> See ya!
<Casey> Spinner, you mentioned receiving a check when people read your
work.  How often are you paid?  Monthly?
<Spinner> Actually, I think the hardest part about finishing a book is
having time to write after you sell one.  You HAVE to spend all your time
promoting it or it doesn't sell.
<Spinner> different publishers pay from monthly to quarterly.
<Bookpal> That is a problem I see lots of writers talk about, Spinner
<Casey> I've come to that same conclusion, Spinner.  And when you sell one
that's successful, then the publisher wants a new novel every 4 months.
<Chipmonk> That's better than most print publishers.  I know a lot of
people who had to get a lawyer to get paid--yearly.
<Spinner> I've got five books within a couple chapters of 'the end' that
have been that way for nearly two years, karen.
<Bookpal> bummer
<Casey> Writing isn't only about writing, that's for sure.
<Spinner> that's right, chip and now, in several genres, new authors are
offered NO royalty contracts and they're for ALL rights print, electronic
and movie, intenational, etc.
<Chipmonk> I know!
<Chipmonk> Big Bummer!!
<Goshwin> Just about makes it not worth while
<Spinner> They have no 'end' time and basically,. the writer has to take it
or not sell to anyone because they 'share their databases.'
<Chipmonk> They're gonna be sorry!
<Bookpal> with electronic printing available books will never go out of
print - really need to secure the royalities
<Casey> We have to hope so, Chip.
<Spinner> which is why some very well known authors suddenly have
e-published books.
<Chipmonk> All the old writers are going to die off and no one will replace
them because they don't work with new authors to help build them up.
<Casey> Is that true in the e-publishing markets, too, Spinner?
<Bookpal> good point, Chip
<Spinner> No, casey.  there aren't any advances, but royalties are much
higher and contracts are usually for a year.  the writer gets the copyright
and the e-publisher asks for ONLY e-distribution rights.
--------------------------------------