CHAT ARCHIVE - 8-7-1999, Character Research

Begin Chat Playback

<shorty103> Casey, I can only stay until about 11:30 my time okay, early morning
<Casey> Everyone, square cow is Brian, and shorty103 is Rose.
<Casey> kissfan is Kathy
<Casey> We will begin, since Rose won't be with us for the full discussion.
<Casey> Okay, tonight's grammar lesson is a quickie.
<shorty103> Oh boy, a quickie
<kissfan> HEHEE
<shorty103> lol
<Casey> It involves coordinating conjunctions. Can anyone name them?
<shorty103> Oh no, I'm lost
<Casey> (There are only 7)
<Chipmonk> Give us one?
<Casey> and
<Chipmonk> with
<Casey> nope!
<kissfan> of?
<Casey> okay guys:
<Casey> and, but, or, nor, for, yet, and so.
<kissfan> ok I got it now
<shorty103> yeah same here
<Chipmonk> Is this gonna be on the test?
<Casey> They're the little words that combine clauses and we never knew what they were called.
<square cow> I did........
<Casey> You guys want a test?
<shorty103> no
<kissfan> no please no
<kissfan> HEHEE
<Casey> okay. You're off the hook.
<shorty103> good
<kissfan> YAY
<Casey> A general rule of punctuation is, if the clauses they join are short, you don't need a comma before the conjunction.
<square cow> Unless...?
<Casey> For example, "Ask no questions and I'll tell you no lies."
<Casey> If the clauses are long, say 12 words or more, then a comma goes before the conjunction.
<square cow> What if it's 11 words....?
<Casey> You might need a comma.
<square cow> It's up to your discretion then?
<Casey> Use your "ear," so to speak. When you read the sentence aloud, if you pause there, a comma is generally called for.
<square cow> Could that not also apply to quite short clauses?
<Casey> Yes. Especially if the clauses are dissimilar.
<Chipmonk> You pause, you coma?
<square cow> Okay........
<Casey> To complicate things just a bit: when commas are used within longer clauses, a semicolon (;) will be used before the conjunction.
<Casey> For example: Babe Ruth, the greatest of home run hitters, was the most colorful figure in baseball; but many people think Ty Cobb was a better player.
<shorty103> I see the way the sentence is set up Casey.
<Casey> Also, if you omit the coordinating conjunction, separate the clauses with a semicolon.
<Casey> Children begin by loving their parents; as they grow older they judge them; sometimes they forgive them.
<square cow> Why not just buy a grammar checker?
<square cow> It's got to be easier....surely.
<Chipmonk> Because they don't catch everything especially if you're not doing business writing.
<Casey> Grammar checkers want to eliminate things that should stay in creative writing.
<square cow> That's true Chipmonk......
<Chipmonk> Grammar Checkers hate fiction and spell checkers hate science fiction.
<square cow> Such as?
<shorty103> LOL chip
<Casey> Such as double that's . . . mine always wants to take out the second that even though it is correct and needed.
<square cow> Can't you just customize them....?
<kissfan> or double had
<square cow> Having said that...they're incredibly slow things as well...don't you find?
<square cow> Or is that just my antiquated computer...?
<Chipmonk> They hate dialog especially--repetition like, "I--I, I don't know."
<kissfan> yep for sure
<shorty103> I know myself, I get so confused about grammar as a whole; I forget what goes where, and when someone points out, I'm more lost than what I was before I began.
<Casey> I've customized my spell checker and it still tells me my characters names are wrong.
<square cow> Okay.......I'll admit defeat.....
<Casey> It wants to change Manerra into Manure. I get highly insulted.
<square cow> The wonders of modern technology....
<kissfan> LOL
<kissfan> mine does the same
<Chipmonk> Don't they go nuts on your colloquial English?
<square cow> I can understand why...
<Chipmonk> I think Manerra would too.
<Casey> Technology is great for not having to retype every time you edit; otherwise, rely upon your own knowledge.
<square cow> My colloquial English is ...English...the genuine article...
<shorty103> I use the spell checker once and awhile, but not all the time. I use it to check some of the simple words that I know but can't remember how to spell.
<Chipmonk> I know, but you use slang and drop letters don't you?
<square cow> I'll go along with that Casey...
<square cow> And they don't find words with different spellings but the...forget it...it's late and I'm lost...
<Casey> Do you have a special spell checker for British spellings?
<Casey> Finally, just a couple notes about the conjunctions themselves.
<Chipmonk> Word has settings for British and American and Australian.
<Casey> In formal English "yet" is sometimes used to mean "but."
<square cow> It's not very good with Lancashire dialect..I'll be honest...Yes, Casey.......and British Grammar too...I'm not sure how it differs from everywhere else but you have to set it...to British....
<shorty103> That's very interesting.
<Casey> Spoken English often uses "so" as a coordinating conjunction, but written English tends to be very sparing of its use as a coordinator.
<square cow> Australia's part of the British Commonwealth....
<square cow> Give us an example will you Casey....?
<shorty103> I have to set mine to American, even though I'm in Canada
<Chipmonk> Yeah, but they talk funnier.
<Chipmonk> Fair dinkum!
<Casey> "I want to go to the store so I can get me some ice cream." is spoken English and dialogue.
<Casey> Written as narrative, we'd be more prone to say, I want to go to the store and buy some ice cream.
<square cow> Shouldn't it be 'So that...'?
<Chipmonk> Oh no! Another one. We are even now!
<Casey> As dialogue, either way would be acceptable.
<Casey> If you put it in quotation marks, grammar and proper English can fly out the window and it's acceptable.
<Chipmonk> Gosh, is there a Canadian English spellchecker?
<Casey> If there are no other questions about coordinating conjunctions, that's the end of the grammar lesson for tonight.
<shorty103> okay, what's next on the list?
<Goshwin> You can select Canadian in most Spell checkers.. mostly its UK English
<square cow> Quite rightly......
<Chipmonk> I knew it! Three UKs at once!
<Chipmonk> Umm, teacher?
<Casey> Yes, Chip?
<Chipmonk> Was studying conjunctions how you got conjunctivitis?
<Casey> LOL! No, Chip. No one knows how I got conjunctivitis.
<Casey> Now: Everyone, without scrolling back and looking, tell me what the 7 coordinating conjunctions are.
<square cow> Chipmonk...have you ever considered writing for Australian Soap Operas...?
<Goshwin> Ummm.. Shrug.. no idea
<Goshwin> idea
<Chipmonk> and, so, yet for, ummm, ummm and ummm.
<Casey> Pretty good, Chip.
<shorty103> but, or , yet, so,
<shorty103> for
<Chipmonk> No, Brian, don't know about Aussie soap, is it anything like Vegamite?
<shorty103> if
<Casey> Okay, they're and, but, or, nor, for, yet, and so.
<shorty103> short memory
<shorty103> like short name! LOL
<Casey> All right, tonight's topic discussion actually continues what we were talking about last meeting.
<Chipmonk> And I thought your name had to do with your height!
<shorty103> LOL Chip
<Casey> We largely discussed research, and how it's used in fiction writing.
<Casey> We touched on research as it relates to character development, but really didn't get into that discussion before it got rather late.
<Casey> We considered Kathy's Druids, and the kinds of information she would need to know to make them believable.
<kissfan> and now I have found more info LOL
<Casey> What kinds?
<shorty103> I did a little research on the reversing falls, but I still have to find out about a young man that did a dive below the falls and came back up a different man
<Casey> With Kathy's guidance, we learned that Druids were very nature-oriented.
<kissfan> I have found a book dealing with the Celtic gods and goddesses and what each represent
<shorty103> that's great kissfan
<kissfan> as well as how Celts did their rituals and why
<square cow> t far off....
<kissfan> there is a lot in that one book that I can use
<Casey> So herbal medicines, astronomy, astrology are some of the sciences she has to learn for the writing of her story.
<Casey> Are the Celts in the same time period as the Druids?
<square cow> They also start fights at Stone Henge every year......
<kissfan> yes they are the Druids were the religious order, so to speak
<Casey> (Are the Druids Celtic?)
<Casey> Thanks. You understood what I was trying to ask.
<kissfan> yes I did
<Chipmonk> Themegaliths predate the druids, don't they?
<Casey> In general character development, Rose mentioned briefly in passing about using Tarot cards to develop characters.
<square cow> I hate to tell you this but Celts and Druids still both exist today.......
<Chipmonk> Yes.
<shorty103> yes, there is a article in NovelAdvice web site that tells how someone used the Tarot cards in writing a story
<Casey> The Mayans still exist today, too.
<kissfan> yep they do i know that only too well I am using the ancient history around the time that the Romans and celts were at war
<square cow> They were built by the Beaker people...apparently..or Beeker, however it's spelt...
<square cow> I thought the Mayans had all died out...or killed each other off or something.....
<square cow> Of course, I could be wrong.....
<Casey> No, they haven't. And they still eat guinea pigs.
<Chipmonk> No in fact they have been revolting lately.
<Chipmonk> Kathy, if you're using astrology, it was different than what we know today.
<kissfan> ya it was and I am still working on that part of it
<square cow> Strange diet....I take it there are no Pizza Huts about?
<Casey> lol, Brian!
<Chipmonk> I don't think they do the human sacrifice thing any more though.
<square cow> If they eat guinnea pigs they sound revolting anyway.......
<Casey> I have no idea how to read Tarot cards, but if you can, that's something you can use to develop interesting characters.
<square cow> Just rodent sacrifice....I wouldn't go to Maya or where ever they live if I were you....
<Chipmonk> As long as they don't eat chipmonks. (but I feel sooo sorry for the guinnea pigs, sniff)
<Casey> More familiar to us Americans, are horoscopes.
<kissfan> yes since the tarot is basically a life journey depicted on the cards
<Chipmonk> Astrology works good for character development too.
<shorty103> yes, I did a little research on how to read Tarot cards, but I do understand that one can take classes on it
<shorty103> yes, that is another good idea Chip
<Casey> Exactly, Chip. It can give us characteristics that we might not have thought about.
<kissfan> yep but I taught myself the thing is I am too acurate with it at times
<Goshwin> How about life.. I have met some real doosies... (Characters that is)
<square cow> I know how to read Tarot cards.........it's great fun at parties when you want to scare somebody you don't like...
<Casey> Nice, Brian! And here I was going to invite you to my next party. Darn, it's a shame you're 3,000 miles away.
<kissfan> HEHEE
<square cow> Yes.........it is, isn't it?
<Chipmonk> You can even create your own system sort of thing--just draw a circle and divide it in 12 sections, put some aspect of life in each and define them for your character.
<square cow> I would have thought that real people you know might be a good place to start researching characters...I must admit.
<kissfan> or freak out friends when you say something will happen and it does
<shorty103> I have a Tarot Card reading, and it was very interesting. They (the cards) were just about right on on some things
<Casey> Nothing can replace real-life.
<kissfan> exactly
<square cow> Except Nintendo 64....
<Chipmonk> Yes, Brian, as long as you're not to obvious. wouldn't want to get sued.
<Casey> Yeah. Don't recreate real people so they can recognize themselves.
<Casey> That can and will get you in trouble.
<square cow> No...just mix a few characters together...and make sure they can't afford to sue....
<Chipmonk> For using friends relatives and the weirdo down the street.
<kissfan> very serious trouble
<square cow> You've just got to be careful how far you go....
<Goshwin> Just use the traits... imagine what they would do in a new situation... (he he some of my most hated characters are real people..)
<shorty103> yes, but the way I look at it, it's just fun, and if something so happens to come true, that's a bonus
<Casey> Most "serious" research for characters would be in the development of their profession.
<square cow> What if they don't work?
<Casey> If a character is a physicist, it helps to know what physicists do and something about physics.
<Casey> They all work at something. Even housewives work.
<square cow> That's true.....
<kissfan> and very hard too Casey HEHEE
<shorty103> sometimes just using a combination of different things will more than likely help in developing a character, I just wish I knew what my excuse is. lol
<Casey> Certain call-in radio talk shows can help with characterizations, too.
<square cow> And we all know what housewives do.......
<Casey> Listen to the real-life situations people call in and talk about on the radio.
<shorty103> yes, and we do it very well! lol
<square cow> Only if they're nutters.......
<Casey> nutters??
<kissfan> yep Rose we do HEHEE
<Chipmonk> Nutters?
<kissfan> nutters???
<Goshwin> Sounds like something Chip might say
<Chipmonk> Is that my occupation?
<Casey> Talk shows also clarify for the astute listener, current issues people are dealing with today.
<kissfan> yep it does HEHEE
<square cow> Yeah...the people who call radio talk shows are all lunatics.....well, they are over here........
<Chipmonk> And how they talk.
<square cow> What is your occupation Chipmonk?
<Chipmonk> A nutter.
<Goshwin> Chip = nut collector
<square cow> What sort of qualifications do you need for that?
<Chipmonk> Being a rodent helps.
<Goshwin> fur, stripes, and a nervous disposition
<square cow> Oh...I see...............Chipmonk...nuts.....right........
<square cow> ipmonk......or is that an impolite question to ask?
<Goshwin> Chip = nutophile
<square cow> Do you really collect nuts?
<Goshwin> he he he (square is new to this game)
<kissfan> yep
<Chipmonk> We chipmonks have a saying about cows.
<square cow> Good job I've got nothing to get up for in the morning..........
<Chipmonk> Keep out from beneath their tails.
<square cow> Go on.............
<Casey> Copyright: Pre-1978, material was copyrighted for 28 years, renewable for a second 28 years.
<Casey> That's a total of 56 years before material falls into public domain.
<square cow> Yeah......we cows say that about Chipmonks too..........very uncomfortable..........
<Chipmonk> Lol!
<square cow> It's different in Britain......our copyrights last for about fifty years or something after the author's death........
<Goshwin> now we know why chipmonks are so nervous... EEEK LOOK OUT
<Chipmonk> Has it changed, Casey?
<Casey> Yes, Chip.
<Casey> The new copyright laws have lengthened protections by 19 years.
<Casey> After 75 years, a work is in public domain.
<square cow> Actually we cows prefer to use quilted toilet paper....
<Casey> I was going to ask, did anyone happen to keep a copy of the buffer from our Eschewing Obfuscation workshop?
<Casey> Works in public domain can be quoted without payment of use fees.
<square cow> God...I hope not...I don't know what it means but sounds unpleasant.
<Chipmonk> Negative.
<kissfan> Nope I didn't either
<Casey> I lost it when I reformatted my hard drive. Oh, well.
<Casey> I haven't even decided upon the next topic.
<Casey> I'm open for suggestions!
<square cow> Oh right......you could have just said that.......
<square cow> How about everyone buying a copy of my book and then reviewing it...and then asking the publisher when the next one's due out?
<shorty103> what about 'Getting those creative juices flowing (again)
<Casey> Big sticks held by mean people work, Rose.
<Chipmonk> Lol
<shorty103> what??? I don't understand what you mean Casey
<kissfan> HEHEE Ya real good too
<Chipmonk> I have a problem maybe you could find a way to use.
<Casey> Anyway . . . Beware quoting from "substantially rewritten" or expanded upon versions of a work that is in public domain.
<Casey> Believe it or not, the Readers' Digest Bible is copyrighted, even tho the King James Version is public domain.
<shorty103> well, it the witching hour for me, got to go! have a great week everyone, and we will talk on Monday if you have time Casey,
<Casey> Okay, Rose. Good luck with your selling tomorrow.
<Casey> What's your problem, Chip?
<Chipmonk> Well, I can think up cool situations, societies, cultures, what ifs. but I can't seem to turn them into plots.
<Casey> You think I have any idea how to do that Chip?!
<square cow> Chipmonk...there are only three plot lines in the world...Boy meets girl...love triangle thing...journey of discovery plot and Good Vs Evil....
<Chipmonk> awwww, sniff.
<Casey> That's 4, Brian.
<square cow> use one of them and use your ideas as a background to it.......
<Chipmonk> That's for next time.
<square cow> No...the girl meets boy and the love triangle plot were supposed to be the same one....sorry...
<square cow> I still think you should buy my book :o)
<Casey> I was wondering if that's what you meant.
<Chipmonk> How about a love tetrahedron?
<Casey> You've not given us the contact info . . .
<Casey> (I know, I know! It's on site)
<Goshwin> Hey Chip.. How about turning this into a plot... "Pull my finger!!"
<square cow> Try Amazon Co. Uk on the web. They should have it...
<kissfan> LOL
<Chipmonk> I think I should to but I don't have any extra money right now.
<Casey> Thanks, Brian.
<square cow> Pull my fingers been done in South Park........
<Casey> Papers in state archives are usually not copyrighted, but you can encounter the question of invasion of privacy if you use family papers found there in a work.
<Chipmonk> Very funny, Gosh!
<Goshwin> he he .. you should have been around last night square.. Pull my finger took on a whole new context
<square cow> Anytime Casey......it's a bargain............:o)
<Chipmonk> Gosh is making reference to last night's chat.
<Casey> Letters are owned by the sender, not the receiver. So before you quote from a letter, be sure you have the author's permission to use it.
<square cow> I won't ask Goshwin...........I won't ask but you can tell me if you like.........
<Chipmonk> So the person who wants to publish JD Salinger's letters can't?
<square cow> Who'd want to?
<Casey> Not without Salinger's (or his estate's) permission to publish.
<Chipmonk> Some woman.
<square cow> What woman...........have you ever read catcher in the rye?
<Chipmonk> There's a suit going on now, I think.
<Chipmonk> No, it was banned in my High school
<square cow> It should have been banned altogether!
<square cow> For being incredibly dull....
<Casey> How is your book selling, Brian?
<Chipmonk> No Ethan Fromme should be banned for that.
<square cow> God knows.........my publisher never tells me anything.
<Casey> Oh, that's nice!
<Chipmonk> And Silas Marner and most of what they made us read.
<Chipmonk> How long has it been on the market?
<square cow> I can think of quite a few books that should be banned for the same reason........Yeah, especially Silas Marner or anything else by George b****y Elliot.
<square cow> I don't know....since September 97 I think......
<Chipmonk> And you don't know anything about how many you've sold? Have you gotten royalty checks?
<square cow> I've had a few quid here and there......but no royalty statements as such.........he's very uncooperative.......
<square cow> Whatever you do....don't send a manuscript to him.......it's not worth the hassle.
<Chipmonk> Friend of mine had to get a lawyer to get her statements and checks.
<Chipmonk> Very discouraging.
<kissfan> ya sounds like it
<square cow> Very..........still, not all publishers are like him.......I just happened to pick the biggest idiot in the book I think.......
<Casey> Very discouraging. The hassels we have to look forward to if and when we every publish a novel. . .
<square cow> Sorry..........didn't want to put a downer on things....
<kissfan> ya really
<Casey> Don't be sorry, Brian. This is the real world we must face. Better to be aware than not.
<Chipmonk> I think everyone I know who has published a first novel has had a bad experience.
<square cow> I made a mistake letting him accept it really...he was the first publisher I tried.........should have tried a couple more first really........
<Chipmonk> In one way or another.
<square cow> Looks nice on the shelf though........
<Casey> Do second novels get better?
<square cow> No idea.......I'm still waiting for a contract on the second one........
<Chipmonk> If you sell well, you get a little clout and maybe can move on to better publishrs.
<Casey> You're trying someone else on the second ms., Brian?
<square cow> If he ever tells me how well I'm selling...he just sort of drops hints...such as, oh yeah, couple of thousand...that sort of thing......
<square cow> I ought to really...oughtn't I? I've just never got round to sending it off again though..........I've got four more novels sat on my hardrive doing nothing......
<kissfan> I would demand a written statement Brian and if you don't get one contact a lawyer
<kissfan> you have the right to know
<square cow> It's difficult making demands of someone like him........he's actually quite a nice chap to talk to......I feel guilty about it somehow......
<square cow> I'm just chalking it down to experience really........
<Chipmonk> Are your other books about the magician?
<square cow> What magician?
<Casey> His protag is a detective.
<Chipmonk> The one in the story you sent me?
<square cow> A detective?
<Casey> paranormal investigator.
<square cow> What was the story I sent you, Chipmonk?
<Chipmonk> I forget names.
<square cow> Yeah....Paranormal Investigator...that's the one. And no, the other books are sort of sequels but they all have different characters in them.
<Chipmonk> The one who was a bit old and crotchety and had a fat assistant whose but looked like a disco ball and they performed for children and...
<square cow> Oh...I remember the short story now.......er....I've forgotten what the question was. It's very late here and my brains melting......
<square cow> No.......he's just in that one short story..........
<Chipmonk> Oh, okay. He was funny.
<square cow> The book's better....and well worth the price.........:O)
<Chipmonk> Plug plug!
<square cow> Yeah....why not.......somebody's got to....
<Chipmonk> My stuff gets accepted but never sees print, the companies go out business or the editor dies or something :(
<square cow> Just making sure you don't forget...now that's www.amazon.co.uk....not the american Amazon.... oh b***er...
<square cow> www.amazon.co.uk
<Casey> Cool. Thanks, Brian.
<Chipmonk> Thanks.
<Goshwin> Chippys a jink.. sort of the curse of the Monk
<Casey> Hopefully, they worry about the money conversion problem?
<Chipmonk> I didn't know there were two.
<square cow> There's loads of reasons why publishers turn work down you know, and it's rarely because it's no good. They just can't be bothered telling you why, that's all....
<square cow> Apparently there are two, and I don't know about the money conversion......
<Chipmonk> Oh editors usually like my stuff. They just die.
<square cow> That's very unfortunate.........I wish mine would...........
<Casey> I know. The coolest rejection letter I ever got was a "sorry, we don't publish this kind of work, only how-to books, but please keep trying. We think your work should be published."
<Casey> For shame, Brian!!
<square cow> That's very encouraging Casey...I got a letter once that read:
<kissfan> now that would be incouraging
<Chipmonk> Cool, but what are you doing sending a sf novel to a how-to book publisher, Casey?
<square cow> Sorry, we like your work but we're not going to use it. We don't know why exactly, but we're not.
<Casey> That's funny, Brian!
<Casey> Because the Writer's Digest said they did take that kind of book.
<square cow> Don't know about funny...but it was bizarre...
<Casey> And it wasn't SF, Chip, it was NF
<kissfan> the one that I got once was that they had met their quota of new writers and couldn't publish it
<Chipmonk> You really got a rejection that said that!!
<Goshwin> humm I have never been turned down.. GRIN
<square cow> The quota thing is quite common apparently........what's NF? Over here that stands for the National Front...
<Casey> That because you've never completed anything, Gosh!
<Casey> Nonfiction
<Chipmonk> Non-fiction.
<square cow> Yeah...I really got that rejection letter. Weird eh?
<square cow> Nonfiction...gotcha...
<Chipmonk> Very weird, but honest.
<square cow> It does help to complete books....
<square cow> Hmmmmmmmm....honesty isn't always the best policy........
<kissfan> yep and never lose the manuscript and the copies in a fire
<Casey> We're after him to complete something--even a short story--but he keeps getting new ideas and going off in other directions.
<Chipmonk> I had a book that the acquiring editor loved but his boss thought of stupid reasons for rejecting it, when I really think the reason was she was a hardcore feminist and my characters treated women like property.
<Goshwin> GRIN... okokok .. actually I have been hiding the shorts.. I show you guys the tests.. and "experiments"
<square cow> That helps...........
<Casey> I hope your shorts are covered by trousers!
<square cow> Don't send books off to The Feminist Press then....
<Chipmonk> It wasn't feminist when I started--DAW books.
<Casey> Ahhhh, censorship is alive and well.
<square cow> I'm intrigued by Goshwin's experiments....
<Chipmonk> I killed Donald A. Wollheim, then it became feminist.
<square cow> Chipmonk......I didn't understand a word of that. I've no idea what DAW books is or who Donald A Wollheim is....
<Casey> They're a well-known SF publisher, Brian--U.S.
<square cow> And Donald?
<Casey> The guy who ran the company.
<Chipmonk> One of the original bunch that hung out together that included Isaac Asimov and Heinlein and that bunch.
<square cow> Why did Chipmonk kill him?
<Casey> She didn't, Brian. I suspect he died of old age.
<Goshwin> Square .. I have spent a year and a half tinkering and trotting out ideas and bits of stories.. Only very recently have I managed to score direct hits with this crowd, hence only recently have I the confidence that I might be able to produce a publishable work.. Hence "experiments"
<Chipmonk> I just have bad timing. I killed L. Sprague de Camp too.
<square cow> Oh....right..........Goshwin...it is a good idea to concentrate on one idea at a time........
<Casey> Try for younger publishers, Chip.
<square cow> How did you manage to kill them?
<Chipmonk> There's an idea!
<Chipmonk> I'll send queries asking their age!
<Casey> lol!
<Chipmonk> Gosh writes very well, he just didn't know it.
<kissfan> LOL
<Goshwin> Its a waste of time to write crap, and try to sell it.. better to write chapters and see what methods worked and what didn't.. I could spend months on a work, and find it was garbage..
<square cow> My publishers young......do you think you could kill him for me.....?
<Chipmonk> Gosh doesn't write books, he engineers them.
<Chipmonk> We're his crash test dummies.
<Goshwin> But now I have a fair grasp of methods and expression...
<square cow> Goshwin........I understand............but at some point you have to go with one story and if you still think it's crap then rewrite it until you don't...
<Goshwin> hahahahahaha good one
<square cow> So you have actually completed some then?
<Casey> We're waiting with bate on our breath for that answer!
<Goshwin> Nothing completed to satifaction.. two horrible shorts.. and lots of test chapters from book ideas (but a zillion outlines and test bits)
<Chipmonk> Yeah what happened to the red light off on one.
<Casey> I bet that guy's frozen solid by now.
<Goshwin> Chip.. that work was a fail.. but I think I could make it work now,, I have learned enough to make it work
<Chipmonk> I can't remember its name either.
<square cow> Yeah......we all have loads of ideas...it's getting them down that's the really hard bit........
<square cow> Do we get to see it?
<square cow> Not in a novel position :O)
<Goshwin> unfortunately Zen has pushed to make it a novel ... I am not in a novel position.. It will be a while before I trot that work out and change it.. I am STICKING to the short strategy..
<kissfan> I have a notebook that I keep with just story ideas that way I can use any of them I wish at any time
<Goshwin> I see someone is in split screen
<square cow> What does that mean?
<Casey> Brian, do you have everyone in a separate box?
<square cow> Yeah....
<square cow> Do I have to hit return before anyone can read this?
<Goshwin> I saw that you answered before I hit return.. thus I assume you are using the IRC split screen mode that lets you see everything that is typed..
<Casey> Go to layout, go to IRC mode.
<square cow> Hold on..........
<square cow> Do I have to............I like it like this.......I can see everyone's typing errors and everything this way...
<Goshwin> I had a wee bit oh fun insulting him.....
<Chipmonk> No you don't have to less you want to, but it gets a bit hard when there's a large group in chat.
<square cow> Do I keep interrupting the flow of things?
<Casey> No, you don't.
<Chipmonk> I think I'll start writing again soon, er rewriting.
<Goshwin> anyway.. I have been testing littel bits parts and such on Casey, Chip, Zen , Just recently I think I scored with all three... which make me think I am on to something
<square cow> Okay........
<Casey> New Writers lasts for 2 hours, then serious discussion degenerates into whatever we want to talk about.
<square cow> I think I'd better go now.....it's twenty past four in the morning and my phone bill must be massive
<Goshwin> Oh dear.. he needs a better connection
<Casey> Yes! Glad to meet you in person, Brian.
<kissfan> nice meeting you and have a good night
<Chipmonk> Yes, we've heard about your phone bill!
<square cow> It's been fun..........confusing and fascinating....but fun.............
<Chipmonk> Goodnight Brian.
<square cow> Yeah.....my phone bill's devastating..........
<square cow> TTFN
<Casey> Later

End Chat Playback