CHAT ARCHIVE - 8-12-2000, Internal Dialogue

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ICQ Chat Save file
Started on Sun Aug 13 01:44:43 2000

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<Jean> you all should feel special tonight...gave up Angels tickets for this
<Casey> I hope you don't regret doing that, Jean! (Now I'm feeling pressure.)
<Rudedog> bah
<Jean> you better make it a good one then Casey. lol.
<Jean> Actually the topic is very intriguing to me
<Casey> I think Jean is not longer feeling shy.
<Jean> told ya it would just take a few sessions...lol
<Rudedog> ha, don't let people intimidate you
<Rudedog> so Casey, what is the grammar topic?
<Casey> Hyphen use.
<Casey> (Please contain your excitement, everyone.)
<Rudedog> *shrugs* I'm sure there is a lot about them I can learn
<Casey> We'll begin now, because anyone else who may arrive is probably hoping to get here after the grammar is past.
<Rudedog> lol
<kissfan> hehee
<Rudedog> they're only half-baked anyway
<Casey> Hyphens are used to join two or more words used as a single adjective before a NOUN.
<Casey> "a well-known speaker" is an example.
<Casey> Don't use the hyphen if no noun follows the adjectives, as in "The speaker was well known."
<Rudedog> how about my example above?
<Rudedog> "They're only half-baked anyway."
<Casey> That's fine because half-baked is considered a compound word.
<Jean> look-alike
<Jean> I was lazy...he he
<Casey> Just as baseball began as two separate words, graduated to a hyphenated word (base-ball), then through common use, became baseball.
<Rudedog> ... I did not know that...
<Rudedog> *taps temple thoughtfully*
<Casey> Other words in our language are going through similar transitional stages today.
<Casey> on-going used to be more frequent than ongoing, which is more common today.
<Rudedog> I suppose that if I pronounce it without a pause, I just write it as one word
<Rudedog> if I give a slight pause, I would hyphenate
<Casey> Or check the dictionary when in doubt.
<Casey> A more modern dictionary. Ones published in 1954 won't even have some of the words in common use today.
<Rudedog> or use the slight difference to help define a character's speech patterns
<Rudedog> on-going is pronounced differently then ongoing
<Jean> It's amazing all the things you need to know when writing
<Casey> If you use an adverb (-ly word) before a noun, don't hyphenate it with the ajective.
<Rudedog> :) they don't call it an art for nothing
<Jean> amen to that
<Casey> a slow-curving ball versus a slowly curving ball.
<Rudedog> if everything was clearly defined, it would be a science
<Casey> Exactly.
<Casey> hyphens are used to form compound numbers from 21 to 99.
<Casey> fifty-five.
<Rudedog> not fifty five?
<Casey> nope.
<Rudedog> hm, I don't think I've ever seen it hyphenated like that.
<Casey> You could get cute and write fifty and five, I suppose, but expect stares.
<Rudedog> Maybe I'm just going insane.
<Casey> Can we vote on that, Rude?!!!
<Rudedog> Would it make a difference?
<Rudedog> ^_^
<kissfan> or fifty+five HEHEE
<Rudedog> save the fancy stuff for dialog
<Rudedog> plain and simple for description
<kissfan> Rude, I thought you were insane
<Jean> I always write out my checks like that...fifty-five, sixty-seven
<Casey> Also with numbers, separate numerator from denominator in writing fractions: two-fifths.
<Rudedog> thank you. :)
<Casey> You're using correct grammar in your checkbook, Jean.
<Rudedog> lol
<Jean> <<<pat on back
<Rudedog> you couldn't read my checks
<Jean> lol
<Rudedog> this is what they look like
<Rudedog> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~l~~~~~
<Casey> Finally, with the prefixes self-, all-, ex-, and the suffix -elect, use the hyphen.
<Casey> Saves money, doesn't it, Rude?
<Rudedog> for example self-esteem
<Jean> I wouldn't have thought to do that with self esteem
<Rudedog> more like self-surgery
<Casey> If the root word is capitalized, don't capitalize the prefix. As in, ex-President Nixon.
<kissfan> OUCH sounds painful rude
<Rudedog> with the right anistetic...
<Casey> self-esteem, self-confidence, all those self- words.
<Rudedog> dental floss and a darning needle
<Jean> someone get that boy a dictionary...lol
<Rudedog> *slaps self on forehead*
<Rudedog> DOH
<Jean> doh
<Jean> lol
<kissfan> lol
<Jean> gmta
<Rudedog> explain
<Casey> And that's the end of the grammar lesson for tonight. Not as painful as self-surgery now, was it?
<kissfan> gmta?
<Jean> great minds think alike
<Casey> Ahhh! I was wondering about that, too.
<Rudedog> are you implying my mind is great?!
<Jean> well, at least I'm implying one of ours is...lol
<kissfan> lol
<Jean> or maybe it's just that we
<Rudedog> you're right, thanks for noticing! ^_^
<Jean> are quick witted
<Rudedog> -_0 not me...
<Rudedog> I'm molasses-witted
<Casey> Black wit?
<Jean> thick and slow huh? lol
<Rudedog> I have my moments
<Rudedog> lol
<Casey> Is that like black humor?
<Jean> although I've heard that's better than being thin and fast
<Rudedog> yes, but not as tasty
<Jean> <<<going in corner now
<Rudedog> *drags Jean out of the corner*
<Casey> Okay, taadaa! Now for the main topic.
<Casey> Internal dialogue
<Jean> thanks rude
<Rudedog> NP
<Rudedog> what should I be thinking right now
<Rudedog> I don't know. It's all so confusing.
<Jean> I should really learn how to spell
<Casey> Internal dialogue or interior dialogue (as I've also heard it called) is simply a character's thoughts.
<Rudedog> I hope I didn't just say that out loud
<Rudedog> ^_^
<Casey> Why no. We're mind readers here.
<Rudedog> cool, you have to teach me
<Casey> Not only do we know what you're thinking, but we can make it up if we don't know.
<Rudedog> My father always just expected I'd learn it on my own
<Rudedog> assumed I already had it
<Rudedog> Ok, but don't make me think weird thoughts, K?
<Rudedog> I scare easily
<kissfan> weird thoughts are fun HEHEE
<Casey> I'm not promising any such thing!
<Casey> As with everything else in writing, character thoughts have been hacked, dissected, and rearranged into different levels or methods of handling.
<Rudedog> I hate it when authors overdue it with vocalized thoughts
<Rudedog> I read a short once where fully half the word count was thoughts
<Casey> Then there's the other extreme of no vocalized thoughts.
<Rudedog> organized like dialog
<Rudedog> I prefer memory thoughts
<Casey> That is a bit extreme.
<Jean> I use a lot of thoughts in my writing...perhaps too much
<Jean> but I can't help it
<Jean> Would it be better to have the "narrator" express those thoughts?
<Rudedog> and I rely too much on dialog
<Casey> If character's thoughts are enclosed in quotations, I interpret it as them talking to themselves.
<Jean> I thought everything in quotes was meant to be taken as "aloud"
<Jean> isn't that the case?
<Casey> It is.
<Casey> But I've read some novice work where the authors did stuff like, "I don't want to go," he thought.
<Rudedog> I have started to italicize the "Thought" part of the sentence but leave out the quotes
<Rudedog> I've done that before
<Casey> It's more traditional not to italicize thoughts.
<Jean> hmm, really?
<kissfan> I used to do that Casey
<Rudedog> Ok, an example would be appropriate right about now
<Casey> To do so starts making your prose (if published) visually distracting to a reader.
<Rudedog> puts extra emphasis on your character's thoughts
<Rudedog> DOH
<Casey> But implies his thoughts have more weight than his actions or dialogue.
<Jean> ah ha
<Rudedog> might work with the overall mood of the piece
<Rudedog> probably not though
<Casey> And gets confused when words of text must be italicized for other reasons than thought stream.
<Jean> if used correctly, you shouldn't have to italicize anything
<Casey> If you italicize "thoughts," do so with telepathic communications.
<Casey> It's traditionally accepted there.
<Rudedog> I've found only a very few times when I really wanted to italicize something
<Casey> Titles of books must be, foreign words must be.
<Jean> for emphasis I should have said
<Casey> I've seen telepathic thoughts set off with asterisks, but that's odd looking, too.
<Casey> Yes, for emphasis is a common use.
<Rudedog> Those usually show up in dialog, so there is some distinction
<Rudedog> I use bold
<Rudedog> or caps
<Rudedog> usually not caps
<Casey> Caps use is becoming more widespread than I like to see in modern novels--mostly children's literature.
<Rudedog> incredulity (I hope I spelled that right) is usually the only time I italicize
<Casey> As in, What?
<Rudedog> WHAT!
<Casey> Exactly.
<Rudedog> Ahem, WHAT?
<Rudedog> That implies a shout anyway
<Casey> But would you use caps and italicize?
<Rudedog> yes, sometimes
<Rudedog> I take some of my grammar from comic books
<Rudedog> ^_^
<kissfan> I can see that
<kissfan> HEHEE
<Casey> Crip writes comic books. I'll have to double check his grammar. He'll be stunned to learn he's become an instant teacher. (unwitting teacher)
<kissfan> HEHEE ya he would
<Casey> If there's any one 'rule' for writing dialogue, it's the same one I espouse for character creation: BE your character. Be your character's thoughts.
<Casey> Where possible, don't place yourself, the author, between your character and your reader.
<Rudedog> That can be difficult. Especially if you are as sheltered as I am.
<Casey> Which part of being an animal do you have difficulty with, Rude?
<Casey> (Sorry. That was low. I'm ashamed of myself.)
<Rudedog> The entire world has a tendency to speak like me
<Rudedog> no offence taken
<kissfan> HEHEE Low but a good one
<Casey> That's an obstacle every writer struggles with.
<Rudedog> paper training. It sucks
<Casey> It's a hard one to overcome.
<kissfan> LOL
<Rudedog> and getting though those little doors
<Rudedog> Whack you in the butt on the way out
<kissfan> yes I am having trouble thinking like a stalker
<Casey> I'd think that licking your butt was the hardest part.
<Casey> I prefer remaining human.
<kissfan> HEHEE
<Rudedog> LOL
<Rudedog> RotFL
<kissfan> you're on a roll tonight Casey HEHEE
<Rudedog> urinating in public places
<Casey> Too many humans do that. No biggie.
<kissfan> yes lifting that leg must be a pain
<Rudedog> Have some experience kissing butt, Casey?
<Casey> Absolutely, Rude. Too much experience.
<Rudedog> :(
<kissfan> HEHEE
<Rudedog> I can imagine that kissing one's own butt would be difficult...
<Rudedog> and pointless to boot
<Casey> I'm holding myself back from doing a Zenism. There must be a limit somewhere.
<Jean> hey, I thought being "invisible" meant no one could "i.m." you
<Casey> They can message you, but they'd only be guessing your were online.
<Jean> oh ok, thanks
<Casey> If you reply, then you'll become visible to them.
<Casey> Only to that person.
<Jean> I was smart and didn't
<Rudedog> ???
<Jean> <<patting self on back again
<Jean> lol
<Rudedog> <<attempts to kiss own butt
<Rudedog> <hurts himself
<Rudedog> <<ouck
<Jean> ouck?
<Jean> <<<sending dictionary to rude for b-day
<Rudedog> new word. It's kind of a combination of ouch and ick
<Jean> oh ok then
<Rudedog> I have several
<Casey> Okay, levels of internal dialogue coming up.
<Casey> First is the verbalized thought, which uses the "he thought" tag.
<Rudedog> *clears throat, refocuses eyes*
<Casey> All in pristine condition, Rude?
<Rudedog> Beautiful. Absolutely smashing.
<Rudedog> Make great weapons
<Casey> *chuckling*
<Rudedog> Webster's Insta-club
<Casey> The verbalized thoughts are most common. They are your conscious thoughts, usually self-directed, and most common in writing.
<Jean> I'm such an idiot
<Casey> They will usually contain unique speech elements found in a character's dialogue.
<Rudedog> boy, it's lonely in here...
<Rudedog> hellooooooooo.....
<Casey> Exactly, guys.
<Jean> <<<gal here
<Jean> lol
<kissfan> and here
<kissfan> I think let me check
<Rudedog> guy I suppose
<kissfan> yep gal here too
<Jean> LOL KATHY
<Casey> If your character uses "ain't" or "y'all" in his speech, he's likely to use it in his conscious thoughts.
<Rudedog> *looks over shoulder*
<Rudedog> yup, she's telling the truth
<Casey> guys is a Northern slang term referring to all genders. That's how I use it.
<Jean> no offense, just being a smart-ass
<kissfan> yep true
<Jean> did I use that hypen right, Casey?
<Casey> "folks" is less gender-specific.
<kissfan> LOL
<Casey> Yes, Jean.
<Rudedog> but older
<Rudedog> my folks are out camping
<Jean> woo hoo, I'm learning something
<Rudedog> o_0
<Jean> that's how I use folks too Rude
<Casey> Cute, Rude.
<Casey> I was thinking more like, Okay, folks!
<Jean> PR would be guys and gals
<Jean> lol
<Rudedog> thanks ~_o
<Jean> or Gang
<Rudedog> (.\_/.)
<Rudedog> don't mind me, just making faces
<Jean> i like that last one rude
<kissfan> lol
<Casey> You folks are very effectively side-tracking me.
<Casey> I had to scroll back to discover what my last coherent thought was.
<Rudedog> That's my strongest skill
<Jean> <<<zipping it
<Rudedog> lol, sorry
<kissfan> I am trying to be good! It's hard though
<Casey> That's okay, I'll give an assignment and those who haven't been paying attention will be obvious.
<Jean> uh oh
<Rudedog> ok, dialect carries over into inner monolog
<kissfan> HEHEE : P
<Casey> Feelings that are not quite conscious are expressed by the author, not the character.
<Rudedog> hopefully with physical descriptions
<Rudedog> (I wish I could "read" people)
<Jean> do you think I should try doing that more, Casey?
<Casey> They are usually summary statements. Things like, She hated to lie.
<Jean> ohhhh
<Jean> now i understand
<Casey> Only if your writing calls for it, Jean.
<Rudedog> yes, that's what it usually ends up being, but I think that if I could pull it off, a physical sign would be better
<Rudedog> oops, one too many commas
<Casey> I don't recommend using any rule simply because someone invented it. A particular rule can be very effective in certain situations and ridiculous somewhere else.
<Rudedog> huh
<Casey> Body language can be very effective in conveying a character's attention or lack of attention, his inner thoughts and feelings.
<Rudedog> always better to show the symptoms rather then tell the cause.
<Casey> I single out different aspects of writing to address in class, but they really are--all of them--a part of a whole. Just as single threads are commonplace, they become extraordinary when woven into a tapestry. Writing is like those threads, too.
<Casey> Or rather, the elements of writing are like those threads.
<Rudedog> It's off topic, but I wanted to tell you how hard I'm finding it critiquing your piece, Casey. I'm used to working with rankly amateur works that have lots to discuss.
<Casey> Have you read the how to critique articles we have onsite, Rude? That might help some.
<Casey> (BTW, thank you for that compliment!)
<Rudedog> I'll have to look it up
<Jean> critiquing doesn't always mean to have to suggest things to criticize Rude
<Rudedog> suggesting things to improve IS criticizing
<Jean> I need to look that up too Casey
<Rudedog> anything else is moral support
<Casey> Look on the menu at www.zentao7.com Responsibilities of a Reviewer and Critiquing Speculative Fiction are the two articles.
<Lee> hey all
<Rudedog> hello strange late-comer
<kissfan> Hi Lee
<Lee> sorry to be so late, I was sure you wouldn't all be here
<Lee> thanks
<Lee> hi all
<Casey> We're still on main topic. With side-tracks, of course.
<Rudedog> ^_^
<Casey> And we have new members you've not met before.
<kissfan> always side-tracks HEHEE
<Jean> <<semi-newbie
<Rudedog> that insane guy who makes faces
<Lee> hey new guys
<Jean> hello
<Lee> always side track
<Rudedog> Actually I think we're the only guys here
<Casey> Critiquing can also be your interpretation of what a piece says, or how it impacts you. That, oftentimes, can be very helpful information to a writer.
<Rudedog> At least I think you're a guy
<Rudedog> emotional impact... got ya
<Lee> I am a girl
<Rudedog> made me want more...
<kissfan> HEHEE
<Rudedog> DOH
<Rudedog> Still the only guy... Wait a minute, that's not half bad!
<Casey> Good, because there is more! I began chapter 17 yesterday.
<Jean> it's very good Casey
<Lee> good for you, I have had so many family problems I haven't written anything in months
<Jean> much action!!
<Casey> Blush. Thank you.
<Jean> y/w
<Rudedog> How long does it take to write a section that large?
<Rudedog> from concept to typing...
<Casey> Varies. Greatly. I've spent two months on one transitional chapter, and written 40 pages in one day.
<Jean> wow 40!
<Jean> I need more time
<Casey> That RARELY happens, Jean. Don't be too impressed.
<Lee> that is a very true statement
<Lee> takes ages, or no time at all
<Rudedog> I've noticed that I'm exceptionally slow compared to everyone else I've talked to
<kissfan> it all depends on the flow of thoughts at the time you are writing
<Jean> <<<part-time writer here
<Jean> I agree with you Kathy
<Jean> that happens to me, but not often enough :(
<Rudedog> takes me weeks to decide what to write, but only hours to write it. No rough drafts usually
<Lee> sounds like me
<Lee> I am getting ready to start college again, and going to be taking a creative poetry class
<Lee> that should get the juices flowing again
<Casey> In normal writing, I'm exceptionally slow, too. Usually I don't accomplish more than a few paragraphs in a day.
<kissfan> I have written one paragraph in a day or three chapters in a day
<Lee> hey kiss, I have missed you
<Jean> I think it will make a great impact on you Lee
<Lee> never see you on anymore
<Lee> course I haven't been because of modem
<Rudedog> every two weeks or so I write a chapter-sized section
<Jean> creative writing classes helped me a lot
<kissfan> LOl how have you been? I've missed you too
<Lee> oh yes I love em
<Lee> any English, composition, or creative class gets me going
<Rudedog> up, but I have trouble keeping up
<Jean> I've taken them all Lee, and loved every one of them
<Jean> learned a lot
<Lee> yes they are great
<Rudedog> topic people...
<Casey> Okay. You folks chat among yourselves (feel free to), I'll reconstruct topic.
<Lee> ok what are we talking about anyways
<Jean> sorry Casey, we just keep getting carried away
<Lee> the topic is?
<Rudedog> lol
<Jean> <<<zipping it again
<Rudedog> I don't remember you unziping it, Jean...
<Casey> We're up to the unconscious thoughts.
<Rudedog> got a hole in there somewhere...
<Lee> ok, unconscious thoughts how?
<Rudedog> mental imagery?
<Rudedog> random thoughts
<Casey> that is the major way, Rude
<Casey> Imagery.
<Rudedog> flashbacks
<Casey> Flashbacks are more conscious recalls.
<Rudedog> odd facts floating around the surface of our thoughts
<Rudedog> depends... drugs and all...
<Casey> You know (you're aware of) when you're thinking of your Uncle Joe and how mean he was to you when you were a kid.
<Rudedog> Not that I have any experiences there mind you...
<Lee> ok, so it is flashbacks
<kissfan> those thoughts hit me when I am trying to sleep HEHEE
<Lee> ?
<Rudedog> Uncle Joe?
<Rudedog> Kissfan, I didn't know you cared?
<Casey> Referring to unconscious thoughts: "Here thoughts are too deep for simple words, making this the territory of metaphor and image." p. 31 from Building Fiction by Jesse Lee Kercheval.
<Casey> Do hitting thoughts hurt?
<kissfan> HEHEE SSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHH no one is supposed to know that HEHEE
<Rudedog> perhaps a clarification is in order
<Rudedog> *wink*
<Lee> hitting thoughts
<Lee> what does that mean Casey?
<kissfan> depends on how hard you're smacked with it
<Rudedog> thinking daggers at someone I imagine
<Rudedog> If thoughts could kill...
<Casey> An example: "She hated the way words and names disappeared like rabbits down a hole just when she wanted them. Like Alice down the rabbit hole, she was falling, always falling."
<kissfan> goes well with the looks HEHEE
<Lee> ok
<Jean> good example Casey
<Rudedog> ok, I've seen that kind of memory thought, but didn't know it had a name
<Casey> It means, basically, that since the character is not conscious of her thoughts, the author is free to express them on any level that will achieve an emotional reaction from a reader.
<Rudedog> evokes a sense of deep frustration
<Casey> On the theory that since unconscious thoughts create feelings (uneasiness, depression, etc.) in a character, the point is to recreate those moods or feelings in a reader.
<Lee> so writer is going to reader's emotion, not the characters?
<Jean> but your "she hated to lie" example was different than this one
<Lee> gotcha
<Casey> Exactly, Lee.
<Rudedog> expressing the character's emotions in a way the reader can empathize with
<Casey> She hated to lie was the level between verbalized thoughts and unconscious thoughts.
<Casey> While both are the authorial voice speaking, one is more a statement of fact, while the other hopes to achieve emotional reaction.
<Jean> ok, must have nodded off between the transition, sorry
<Lee> lol
<Jean> I understand
<Casey> Probably talking during class, Jean! he he
<Lee> me, I feel totally out of my element, because I came in on the middle of the study
<kissfan> HEHEE
<Jean> yes, bad Jean, bad Jean
<Rudedog> I have already discovered a valuable tool tonight that I intend to put directly into practice
<Casey> That's great to hear, Rude!
<Rudedog> my story's descriptions were starting to sound dry
<Rudedog> I'll try to incorporate some unconscious thought into them
<Casey> Anyway, using the subconscious level of internal dialogue is how you can have a character who's a bum and yet is shown to have deep emotions.
<Rudedog> anything that elegantly helps the reader get to know your character is good.
<Casey> Finally, there's stream of consciousness, which is exactly what it sounds like. A character's internal monologue.
<Rudedog> .......
<Rudedog> I hate SoC stories. They are SO boring.
<Rudedog> maybe a little SoC would be ok though
<Casey> How stream of consciousness is handled is entirely up to the writer's personal perceptions of how individuals think in actual experience.
<Casey> Overdoing anything without a specific intention (for a specific effect) is not good.
<Rudedog> *nods*
<Jean> the reader begins to say "alright already" I know I do
<Casey> It's like a steady diet of ice cream. The first two bowls are good, after that, give me string beans!
<Casey> Exactly, Jean.
<Jean> like you've said in the past Casey, reading does a lot for you as a writer
<Jean> I've learned a lot just from reading books
<Casey> Very true.
<Jean> in the same genre
<Rudedog> Unless there is some pretty major conflict going on up there, thoughts are just inherently less interesting than actions
<Jean> true Rude
<Casey> That's largely how I learned to write, was by studying novels I loved--how the writers put their words together, and how they achieved certain impacts.
<Jean> we all have our strengths and weaknesses...that's why we're here, right. lol.
<Casey> Finally, I took a college course in creative writing to learn the theory I couldn't get from studying actual writing.
<kissfan> Yes and I am still using novels as "text books"
<Jean> yes, sometimes they are better to go by....easier to understand Kathy
<Casey> Exactly, Jean. I have my weaknesses as a writer.
<Rudedog> If only a group of authors could pool their talents without conflicts
<Jean> I haven't seen any yet, Casey
<kissfan> yep I am always looking at them to find out how they did things HEHEE
<Casey> After you send in your crit, I'll send you the URL to where the crits are being posted. You'll see plenty!
<Rudedog> All I've noticed is some slight repetition
<Jean> well, not to say I didn't find things to critique, I did.
<Jean> but nothing to hide your head about
<Rudedog> and one awkward sentence
<Casey> Every writer has his or her own idea of how best to write. And all are correct. There is no fast, hard rules of how to write.
<Casey> Which is why creative writing is so difficult to teach.
<Jean> If every book was written the same way...we'd be bored
<Rudedog> You learn the rules so that you know when to break them
<Casey> And how to break them.
<Rudedog> and how to break them correctly
<Rudedog> ^_^ great minds
<Jean> kinda of what we talked about last time
<Casey> Okay. Now for an exercise, applying what you've heard tonight.
<Jean> thoughts from different people in same flow
<Casey> Everyone, give me a sentence of physical action, or a dialogue statement.
<Casey> (I forgot to mention a couple things, but I'll backtrack after the exercise.)
<Jean> Race slammed his hands against the wheel.
<Casey> Kayarra sat straight up.
<Rudedog> The bow snapped in Strider's hands; the tightly stretched cord cutting a deep gash in his forearm.
<Casey> Kathy?
<Jean> lol
<kissfan> working on it
<Casey> Sorry. I'll be patient.
<kissfan> Skey walked over to the girl
<kissfan> Lousy one
<Jean> Under pressure, eh Kathy? :)
<kissfan> My mind went blank
<Casey> Now give me a line of interior monologue, which will logically follow what you just wrote.
<Rudedog> hate it when that happens
<kissfan> lol me too
<Jean> I can't believe she is so stubborn
<Casey> Kayarra sat straight up. "I didn't touch him," he said. The accusation was another of Manerra's lies.
<kissfan> I hope that she is the one I have been dreaming about.
<Jean> oops, were we supposed to include the first part?
<Casey> I didn't say to, but you can. It's a little easier to follow that way.
<Rudedog> damn, he thought viciously, it must have had an invisible fault. Better stop that bleeding before the orcs catch wind of it.
<Rudedog> The bow snapped in Strider's hands; the tightly stretched cord cutting a deep gash in his forearm. damn, he thought viciously, it must have had an invisible fault. Better stop that bleeding before the orcs catch wind of it.
<Casey> (Rude: generally, try not to use the word "it." Your writing will immediately strengthen by the substitution of nouns or phrases.)
<Jean> so, Casey, did we pass or fail?
<Casey> You folks are doing great. But we're not finished yet. :-)
<kissfan> HEHEE i didn't think we were
<Casey> Next, you need to add a statement of general feelings.
<Casey> Kayarra sat straight up. "I didn't touch him," he said. The accusation was another of Manerra's lies. But who would believe him?
<Rudedog> The bow snapped in Strider's hands; the tightly stretched cord cutting a deep gash in his forearm. Damn, he thought viciously, that limb must have had an invisible fault. I'd better stop that bleeding before the orcs begin tracking me by the smell. After all that had happened today, the last thing he needed was to be hunted himself.
<Jean> Race slammed his hands on the steering wheel. I can't believe she is so stubborn. Moments later he berated himself for running out on her without listening.
<Casey> Rude's going to have half a chapter from this one exercise!
<Rudedog> I have a fertile imagination
<Jean> I'm not sure my "general" worked
<Rudedog> I have dozens of half chapters floating around my computer
<Casey> That's a bit too specific. Want to try again?
<Jean> me?
<Casey> Yes, Jean.
<Rudedog> Johnny Quest on late tonight?
<Jean> He made a mental note to work on that stubborness.
<Jean> better?
<Casey> I'm trying to think of something general. Yours is harder, because you're trying to change the focus from her to him.
<Casey> Women! Would be general.
<Casey> (I like short and sweet)
<Jean> ohhhh, i get it....I'll have to work on that one
<Rudedog> Race punched the steering wheel in frustration. I can't believe she is so stubborn the though, his jaw begining to hurt from clentching it so tightly. Why couldn't she see how much he really loved her.
<Rudedog> how about that?
<kissfan> Skye walked over to the girl. I hope that she is the one I have been dreaming about. His dream girl real? impossible!
<Casey> Okay, everybody's got general now.
<Rudedog> *nods* decent
<kissfan> LOL I think so
<Rudedog> I think with adjectives and punctuation already included. lol
<Casey> Now, for the hard one: Provide an unconscious thought, the "metaphor" one we discussed tonight.
<kissfan> using what we have written?
<Rudedog> The bow snapped in Strider's hands; the tightly stretched cord cutting a deep gash in his forearm. Damn, he thought viciously, that limb must have had an invisible fault. I'd better stop that bleeding before the orcs begin tracking me by the smell. After all that had happened today, the last thing he needed was to be hunted himself. Without a weapon, and bleeding as he was, Strider was worse then defenceless; he was prey.
<Casey> Kayarra sat straight up. "I did not touch him." The accusation was another of Manerra's lies. But who would believe him? He was dirt, and Manerra, the god of honesty who could spit upon him without recrimination.
<Casey> Yes, Kathy.
<kissfan> ok
<Rudedog> that's a good general pattern I think.
<Rudedog> tangible to abstract
<Casey> And there's one more step! (Do I hear sighs of relief that the end is in sight?)
<kissfan> Skye walked over to the girl. I hope that she is the one I have been dreaming about. His dream girl real? impossible! The chance of that ever happening would be a million to one.
<Casey> What's the metaphor, Kathy?
<Rudedog> there's not much emotion in that Kathy
<kissfan> I'll try again
<Jean> Race slammed his hands against the steering wheel. I can't believe she's so stubborn. Would he ever understand women. He may never find out.
<Casey> Now add a statement of metaphor, Jean.
<Casey> Compare two unlike things for emotional impact.
<Jean> In the morning, he would approach her at a different angle
<Casey> You're still making statements only.
<Casey> He could be a worm and grovel as well as any man.
<Casey> That's the type of emotional impact you're trying for.
<Jean> I'm REALLY trying for the "outsiders" pov, but obviously it's not working
<Casey> You don't want to leave your character, though. You want to stay as close to him as you can.
<Casey> If you leave your character, your reader does, too.
<Jean> Understanding the female species was incomprehensible at the moment
<Jean> how's that?
<Rudedog> plus you have an untagged POV change in there
<Casey> Now change the second half to a comparison. Great beginning.
<Rudedog> You go from "he" to "I" without ever tagging it
<Casey> This is draft. We'll forgive that here.
<Rudedog> He might as well try to understand atomic theory as a woman.
<Jean> Understanding the female species was an art in itself
<Casey> Good one, rude.
<Rudedog> They were about equally complecated
<Jean> better?
<Jean> I'll work on that
<Casey> Better, but still lacking an emotional impact.
<Rudedog> Gotta keep to the mood
<Casey> What words create an emotional reaction?
<Jean> ...was an art in itself, one he wasn't sure he'd ever master.
<Rudedog> I rarely describe something I'm frustrated with as an "art"
<kissfan> Skye walked over to the girl. I hope that she is the one I have been dreaming about. His dream girl real? impossible! looks can be deceiving, she would be as self-centered as all the others.
<Jean> I thought it might tie into the fact that this girl is an artist.
<Casey> Think profanity. Think worms and dog poop.
<Rudedog> k
<Casey> Think the worst things you can think of.
<Casey> Those are emotional elements.
<Jean> do you think it works now?
<Rudedog> anger, frustration, confusion
<Casey> He's not concerned with the fact she's an artist. He's upset that she's a pig-headed brat.
<Rudedog> Sounds too nice for an upset guy
<Rudedog> No, she could work it into that way
<Rudedog> let me try
<Casey> And he might lose her to some other dude.
<Rudedog> one sec.
<Casey> *smoke floats through chatroom . . .*
<Casey> Brain cells burning.
<Jean> you got that right
<kissfan> funny how you said that as I lit a cigarette
<Jean> thinking too hard
<kissfan> is mine a little better Casey?
<Casey> Yes. That can happen. Try backing off and viewing this a bit more objectively. With humor rather than dead seriousness.
<Rudedog> Race punched the steering wheel in frustration. I can't believe she is so stubborn the though, his jaw begining to hurt from clentching it so tightly. Understanding the female species was an art in itself, one every bit as difficult and frustrating as the painting she did so effortlessly. Race feared it was one he would never master.
<Casey> Yes, Kathy. That one's good.
<kissfan> cool
<Rudedog> how about that?
<Rudedog> Jean?
<Jean> thanks Rude. So let me get this straight...what I wrote was good, but just lacked in emotion?
<Casey> Yes. Here, we want to FEEL Race's anger/frustration, not simply be told about it.
<Rudedog> yes, there are ways to say what you wanted to say
<Rudedog> you just have to incorporate it into Race's anger
<Jean> I can visualize, but it's hard to put into words
<Casey> Amen
<kissfan> always is Jean
<Rudedog> If I can dream it, I can write it!
<Jean> if only she could see his battle
<Rudedog> I just need to buy an new thesaurus
<Casey> Finally! The last sentence. End with another action or a bit of dialogue.
<Jean> is THAT unconscious thought?
<Rudedog> careful, you are straying from the anger/frustration theme again. If you do that, you will have to introduce a new theme such as regret
<Jean> I feel like I've just graduated...lol
<Casey> Not this last sentence. the last sentence will serve to bring the reader back from the unconscious thought into consciousness and action.
<Rudedog> back toward the tangible
<Jean> battle wasn't exactly the word I was looking for, but...
<Jean> you get my point
<Rudedog> struggle perhaps?
<Jean> have to break out that thesarus
<Rudedog> how it tore him up inside to argue like this
<Casey> Did she have any idea what he was going through?
<Jean> ahhh, good one!!
<Jean> ones
<Casey> or what she was putting him through?
<Casey> (I'm a compulsive self-editor.)
<Jean> so when I wrote "the internal struggle began" (Casey)...that was too vague
<Jean> I'm talking about the piece I sent you a while back.
<Rudedog> he could be frustrated that she is so wrapped up in the art and deadlines that she can't be civil to him
<Casey> Yes. It's more powerful to jump in and show that struggle rather than state there is a struggle.
<Casey> A reader can't visualize "the internal struggle."
<Rudedog> that's because they vary so much
<Casey> They can visualize him pounding on a steering wheel, which is one physical demonstration of an internal turmoil.
<Rudedog> tell what kind of struggle and you have a leg up
<Rudedog> show symptoms and you have another
<Rudedog> show his mental hell and you are there.
<Jean> It sickened him to feel this way about a woman again.
<Rudedog> GOOD
<Rudedog> I like that
<Rudedog> lots of power in that statement
<Casey> I like that, too. Jean ended with a bang!
<Jean> WOO F***ING HOO
<Rudedog> God, I hope he isn't gay...
<Jean> lol
<Casey> LOL! RUDE!
<Rudedog> ....
<kissfan> Skye walked over to the girl. I hope that she is the one I have been dreaming about. His dream girl real? impossible! looks can be deceiving, she would be as self-centered as all the others. He stopped behind her knowing that he was about to find out how right he was
<Rudedog> ^_^
<Jean> far from it Rude....but good observation
<Rudedog> Just a little brain misfire... :)
<Casey> I'd put a period after "out," Kathy.
<Jean> what I meant was he'd been burned by (at least) one woman before
<kissfan> OOPS HEHEE
<kissfan> ok out.
<kissfan> LOL sorry getting silly again
<Casey> "how right he was" is the author's stepping back and predicting--or seeming to predict or forewarn.
<kissfan> I have been working too hard I guess
<Rudedog> yah, I know
<Jean> I agree Kathy . . . much more impact that way
<kissfan> ya true
<Casey> You folks did great. This was not an easy exercise.
<Rudedog> It is fertile ground, but need some polish to take out some of the leaps
<kissfan> nope it wasn't
<Casey> It is also a very commonly used pattern in literature for presenting internal dialogue.
<Rudedog> tangible->abstract->tangible
<Casey> If you want a formula, that's it.
<Casey> Exactly. And from shallow to deeper, back to the surface.
<kissfan> this may help me with the problem I an having with the section I am working on now.
<Rudedog> ^_^
<Jean> that was a GREAT exercise, Casey
<Casey> Thanks, Jean.
<Rudedog> I agree
<Rudedog> got the creative juices flowing thick
<kissfan> the inner thoughts of a stalker. I am still having trouble with that
<Jean> I think we THINK we understand, but that's obviously not always the case
<Casey> I won't work you guys that hard for awhile again.
<Rudedog> think troubled morals
<Rudedog> sexual frustration
<Jean> thanks, we'll need a little time to restore those lost brain cells tonight
<Rudedog> infatuation
<Rudedog> shy
<kissfan> LOL all of the above I think, rude
<kissfan> other than shy
<Rudedog> if not shy, he would approach his target
<Casey> That takes an altered perception of values and focus, Kathy.
<Rudedog> stalkers have low self-esteem
<Jean> think what the stalker would WANT to say to a girl he's.
<Jean> but never had the "courage" to
<Rudedog> yeah
<Casey> Want to brainstorm stalkers?
<Rudedog> why not, if it would help Kathy
<Casey> This can be fun.
<Casey> Okay. Why does he want this girl?
<Casey> (Some things only Kathy will be able to answer.)
<kissfan> well so far this guy has taken pictures of her in her home while she was kissing someone else and left the pictures on the doorstep with the morning paper
<Rudedog> Yes, why doesn't he just ask her out? Why not some other girl?
<Casey> So he wants to be found out. He wants her to know he's watching her.
<kissfan> because she turned him down before and he didn't like it
<Rudedog> Why does he care?
<Casey> Has he dated her in the past?
<Casey> You answered that.
<Jean> he's obsessed with her at this point
<kissfan> no. never dated her
<kissfan> yes Jean
<Rudedog> Is he vengeful, or just jealous?
<Casey> Then why has he fixed on this girl? Is she famous?
<Casey> (Rudedog's question is extremely important. Motive and intent must be clear.)
<kissfan> no. she got him fired for something that he had said to her
<Rudedog> vengeful then
<kissfan> vengful
<kissfan> yep
<Casey> Okay. good. A reader can immediately identify with that.
<Rudedog> how does he think taking picture of her will hurt her?
<Jean> what is his ultimate intention?
<Casey> It would make her nervous--jumpy.
<Rudedog> if he is vengeful, he wants to hurt her somehow, physically or emotionally.
<Rudedog> is that all?
<Casey> Or both?
<Rudedog> or is it a blackmail plot
<Casey> This is his opening move, right?
<Rudedog> something more complicated
<kissfan> exactly Casey he wants her to know that he knows where she lives and what she is doing
<Rudedog> to what end?
<kissfan> yep, then he follows up with a phone call.
<Jean> what is he expecting to ultimately accomplish?
<Casey> Is rape his ultimate intention? (The only humiliation to equate with his own humiliation)
<Rudedog> so far, all he has done is annoy her.
<Casey> Or scare her, depending upon the temperament and personality.
<Rudedog> or perhaps something even more final
<kissfan> what I have been thinking is a possible kidnap and rape
<Rudedog> the measure of this man is very important
<Casey> Yes. Obviously, he's not content with legal recourses.
<Rudedog> Is he good at psychological warfare?
<Casey> He feels justified in what he intends to do.
<kissfan> and then at another time I was thinking of kidnap and forcing her into white slavery
<Rudedog> or just a crank phone caller?
<Rudedog> ??
<Rudedog> Ee
<Jean> white slavery is a bit extreme for a "romance"
<Casey> That one would be much harder to pull off, Kathy.
<Rudedog> White slavery is too hard to make believable
<Casey> How, where?
<kissfan> yep that is why I discarded that thought
<Rudedog> exactly
<Rudedog> perhaps his own little slave
<Rudedog> in a cabin in the woods
<Jean> yes, that would work Rude
<Jean> very well
<Rudedog> however, some time he must contemplate what to do with her
<Rudedog> he can't keep her forever
<Casey> Like someone who would keep a woman locked in a closet in order to repeatedly sexually molest her.
<kissfan> yes I was thinking that too HEHEE
<Rudedog> then what?
<Jean> makes for a chance for the hero to rescue her
<Casey> He's contemplated various ways to kill her when he's finished and ways to dispose of the body.
<kissfan> exactly Jean
<Rudedog> Probably discarded dozens
<Casey> Ups the ante for your female protag, and increases tension.
<Rudedog> maybe not thought at all about it
<Rudedog> if he is not a good planner
<Casey> If he's a successful stalker, he would necessarily be a careful planner.
<Rudedog> he may put her in the position to figure out a fate that works for him
<Casey> Otherwise, too easy for the cops to catch him.
<Rudedog> you're right.
<Jean> I assume this is his first attempt at stalking...am I correct?
<Casey> It might be better if it wasn't.
<kissfan> yep
<Rudedog> he will probably make one or two little "clue" type mistakes that allow the hero to catch up to him.
<Casey> So he's learned from past mistakes. gotten wiser.
<Rudedog> more vicious
<kissfan> HMMMMMMMMMM ya Casey maybe it shouldn't be his first time
<Rudedog> how did he get away with it the first time?
<Rudedog> Why isn't he still in jail?
<Jean> maybe he's spent time in prison
<Casey> Minor brushes with the law.
<Jean> going over what he did wrong the first time, and what not to do this time
<Casey> Nothing major that anyone could get to stick.
<Rudedog> makes him more desperate when the hero starts to close in
<kissfan> He has been traveling with the rock band that the hero of the story is a member of
<Casey> Or nothing worth pursuing legally, because of the expense of lawyers.
<Rudedog> Hm, sterotypes kicking in
<Rudedog> too obvious
<Rudedog> kind of like having a biker as a possible suspect
<Rudedog> not offence to bikers
<Rudedog> just the stereotype will work against the tension
<Casey> Is your female protag a groupie?
<Jean> nope
<Casey> (I'm wondering where, in what "professional" capacity, she got him fired.)
<kissfan> No just a fan that ended up meeting her favorite band member
<Rudedog> Roadies travel a lot; how could he hope to have enough time for a relationship anyway?
<kissfan> gets invited to the concert and backstage
<Rudedog> Unless it was a drunken proposal for a one night stand
<Rudedog> almost to the level of rape
<Rudedog> she told, and to avoid bad press the band's manager canned him
<kissfan> not
<Rudedog> *blinks*
<Casey> Whatever offense Tasha gave the stalker, it must be awful enough, in his mind, to warrant the level of retaliation and humiliation he's planning.
<kissfan> oops he was the bands manager
<Rudedog> oh! hehe
<kissfan> that is how he had come on to all the girls that was backstage
<Rudedog> same thing could happen though
<kissfan> the rest was easy but not her
<Rudedog> only this time it was the band that canned him
<Casey> Okay. Why were no legal charges brought?
<Rudedog> completely trashed his rep
<kissfan> yep.
<Rudedog> friends in high places? money?
<kissfan> she didn't want the band to get any bad press
<Casey> Either by Tasha or by the humiliated manager?
<Rudedog> good will detracts from the motive
<Casey> Better if someone else--the band members--talk her out of pressing charges.
<kissfan> but she made sure that the band made a phone call that would make sure he would never work for another band again
<Jean> could be good press for the band by coming forward with charges against a manager like that, no?
<Rudedog> He has to feel desperate/vengeful enough do some serious stuff.
<Casey> Assure her that they'll take care of the problem.
<Rudedog> Wouldn't he blame the band instead?
<Casey> I would think so, Rude.
<Rudedog> Unless they knew all about it and had been cuttin him LOTS of slack
<Rudedog> this was the final straw
<kissfan> by getting Tasha he would be hurting Skye since she was with him
<Rudedog> the band told it to him straight, "we can't help you this time."
<Jean> why not go after Skye himself?
<Rudedog> a love affair between a band member and this girl
<Rudedog> that is interesting
<Casey> Or they had always covered for him before but because of Tasha's insistance upon pressing charges otherwise, the band members were then forced to fire him.
<Rudedog> too well guarded
<Casey> That places more blame on Tasha.
<Jean> that's good Casey
<Rudedog> that would shatter her "love" for the band
<Rudedog> I know I'd be pissed if I had to threaten legal action for something that clearcut.
<Casey> Not if the band chose her over the manager.
<Casey> It would affect how the band members view Tasha, though.
<Rudedog> Aaa, I could see that going either way.
<Jean> maybe they wanted to get rid of him before, but are using her as an excuse this time
<kissfan> Rude I did have a "fling" with a big name band member and we are still friends HEEE
<Casey> Good one, Jean.
<Rudedog> I like the idea that she started going out a band member and the manager struck at her because she was much easier to get at
<Rudedog> The band member was PISSED. The manager tried to rape his girlfriend. However, the band guy had bodyguards, and she didn't
<Rudedog> is that why you are kissfan?
<Jean> that way, he would place the blame on Tasha, and not the band
<Casey> Jean's suggestion maintains the love-relationship while solving a big band problem.
<kissfan> LOL yep
<Jean> thanks Casey
<kissfan> other of the band's guests had left abruptly or ended up sleeping with the manager
<Rudedog> Ok, so we have two options. either the band fires him under diress, or fires him in outrage.
<Casey> That he's a band manager traveling from state-to-state helps with the difficulty of pressing charges against him in any one state. There may be states it's even dangerous for him to return to.
<kissfan> Skye was Pissed
<Casey> Although bands are easy to locate.
<Rudedog> not necessarily managers though
<Rudedog> a cell phone cuts lots of distance problems
<Rudedog> although even that is trackable
<Casey> Yep. Although where a band is, its manager can't be but so far away.
<Casey> He still needs to be just a hair shy of legal prosecution.
<kissfan> He had been at her house when her ex-husband called and threatened her if she didn't go back with him. He knew that she had been having a rough time.
<Rudedog> I think he should have "convinced" several local authorities to stonewall for him
<Casey> But this manager's traveling with the band, in order to access the women.
<Rudedog> with a sizeable tip of course
<Rudedog> yes, that's right
<Casey> Or convince the women it's in their best interest not to say a word.
<Rudedog> settle out of court
<Rudedog> for small amounts
<Casey> yep, that would work, too.
<kissfan> LOL that was how he got some of the women backstage. by trying to get the women to sleep with him to get there
<Jean> which is very common in that atmosphere
<Jean> you sleep your way backstage
<kissfan> yep exactly.
<Rudedog> 0_o
<Rudedog> actually, I'm not surprised
<Casey> So he sees himself self-righteously: screening the women, and only the best lays get near the band.
<kissfan> yep
<Rudedog> I've watch documentaries about bands like kiss
<Rudedog> Woh! That's sick!
<Rudedog> Really twisted! I like it.
<Casey> We need a sicko manager.
<kissfan> but Tasha had already gotten the invite but he still tried to get into her pants
<Jean> makes for very emotional scenes Kathy
<Jean> you've got a great thing here
<Rudedog> a really sleazy, crass, greasy guy
<Casey> Well, she's gone over his head. No respect for his authority. For the process.
<Rudedog> used car salemen comes to mind
<kissfan> or a lawyer HEHEE
<Rudedog> petty to boot
<Rudedog> ooOO, I can already feel my hackles rise
<Jean> he's got to be a sleazy guy, un attractive, etc.
<kissfan> lol overweight and disgusting
<Jean> never got the girls in high school, etc.
<Rudedog> Yup, otherwise he would get his own girls
<Jean> yep
<Casey> Now that's a stereotype, Jean!
<kissfan> yep
<Jean> <<<is picturing him at this very moment
<Rudedog> me too. 0_0
<kissfan> sweats a lot too EEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
<Casey> I worked with the state prison system for years. Most inmates are handsome men.
<Jean> well, someone had to make up the stereotype
<Rudedog> o_0
<Jean> you gotta use them somewhere...lol
<kissfan> LOL
<Casey> It's in their background and upbringing that psyches got twisted.
<Rudedog> just don't completely rely on it
<Rudedog> I don't know he needs quite that colorful a background
<Rudedog> just a garden variety sicko would do
<Casey> He doesn't.
<Rudedog> I should recommend a book right about now
<Casey> It could be that his mother had an illegitimate child and gave him to someone in the family to raise while she partied and slept around.
<Rudedog> AD&D Complete Villain's Handbook
<Casey> That would sour his opinion of women.
<Jean> On the other hand, Kathy, maybe he's a really good looking guy that's used to getting every girl he's ever tried to get
<kissfan> this guy is a real sleezebag. he knew that most of the girls were easy. Figured that Tasha was too, but she went off on him It took the other band members to pull her off of him
<Rudedog> Wonderful book applicable for way more then roleplaying
<Casey> He got that "all women are easy" knowledge firsthand from watching his mother's behavior.
<Jean> good looking guys are often the sleazist!!
<kissfan> ya true
<Rudedog> I know a few grade A male sluts myself
<Casey> That's true a lot of times, Jean.
<Rudedog> none this bad though
<kissfan> LOL are you one Rude HEHEE
<Rudedog> 0_0
<Jean> I guess it could go either way
<Casey> Well, your male sluts aren't out planning kidnap and sex crimes.
<kissfan> LOL yep it could HEHEE
<Jean> not sure which would make the guy that revengeful
<Rudedog> no
<kissfan> lol
<Rudedog> As much as I would love to say I'm a masterful slut, the truth is not so kind
<Rudedog> I'm actually a wallflower
<Rudedog> I'm the "good son"
<kissfan> see why I am having a hard time with this one? I may have to go back a rework a few things first but I can't until I get a new floppy drive Dwayne bought a new one and blew that one too
<Casey> You'd rather plan the kidnap and rape than practice the slutiness, right, rude? A lot more fun.
<kissfan> OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO kinky!
<Rudedog> *shakes his head and chuckles*
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